Flathead Rebuild |
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kvanleuven
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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Posted: 04 Nov. 2013 at 4:36pm |
I am looking into doing rebuilds on a few different Willys engines. This post does not pertain just to the Go Devil as I also have 3 Super Hurricane 6's that I want to rebuild as well. I have never pulled an engine on my own, let alone rebuild one so I am hesitant to take on the project on my own.
I have been looking around at different engine rebuilders from the local antique engine specialist to a few independent guys. I have been told anywhere from $400 plus parts to $2500 including parts for the work. From what I can tell, parts are going to run me between $800 and $1000. My question is, how hard are these things to rebuild? I have been told they are extremely simple and to do it myself and I have been told that they require a professional and you have to be very careful because most will screw it up. I am trying to make a decision on if I find someone local to help me out or if I need to go the route of paying an expensive shop. If it was just the 1, I would probably go shop route, but being that at this point I am going to be rebuilding at least 4 of them, a savings of $1000 each would be worth it. Thanks for the help!
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6144 |
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There are definatly things that you can screw up if you don't know what your are doing. That having been said, the L134 Go Devil engine is a pretty basic engine, and a good one to learn on. In fact, in my high school auto shop in the 70's, our practice engines were L134's in crates. They got pulled apart and reassembled every semester by a new group of 10th graders and they always started up again at the end.
Read through some of the rebuild guides and have at it. Folks here on thecj2apage will help you out and you will get great satisfation from bringing a dead old lump of iron back to life.
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Carlsjeep
Member Joined: 15 Jan. 2011 Location: Taylorsville Ky Status: Offline Points: 2642 |
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To pull the engine and rebuild it will require a lot of tools and other equipment. If you don't have a shop with an engine lift and a well equipped tool box your in a hole at the start.
Lets assume you have what you need to pull the engine and completely tear it down. You will have to take the bare block, crank and head to an engine machine shop and have them hot tanked, magnafluxed and measured as to being worth using. If the head, crank or block are cracked you have a serious problem. If the block needs boring or sleeving it's expensive. Quality parts will cost at least $1000 for a complete rebuild including valve guides. Unless your experienced at measuring wear and have the tools to do so you will need the machine shop to do it. To be frank, half assing a rebuild is worthless and when you do it over again you will have doubled the cost.
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Life is only as good as you make it.
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Lee MN
Member Joined: 13 Aug. 2008 Location: Harris, MN Status: Offline Points: 4955 |
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I think Carl has offered some sound advise already, pulling the engine is not a big deal and most rental shops offer engine hoists, I have pulled many using a tree branch and a come-along, granted not the handiest way but effective. IMHO the only savings you will find is in the teardown and assembly, A good manual will guide you through this process. I have not gone through an L head in a long time, several friends have in recent years and I have seen costs run from $2500-$3500 for a complete OH, yes you will save $ doing the assembly work yourself but you will get no warranty doing that as you are assuming the risk, can you do it, Yes, you need to decide this.
MHO, Lee |
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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rodfrey
Member Joined: 25 July 2008 Location: North Newton,KS Status: Offline Points: 153 |
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A few years ago I was considering rebuilding an L-134 and looked at the website listed below. In the end I took the engine to a local re-builder who has a good reputation for building modern high performance engine and antique engines. Total cost including new parts and labor somewhere between $1700 and $1900, can't remember exactly.
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/ever-seen-this_topic18811.html Go to the Flatfenderfever.com link mentioned in the cj2apage above. In 2006 there was a four part series about rebuilding the L-134 on the g503.com website, written by John Barton. http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Engine/Rebuild.html |
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Rodney Frey
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damar2yxr
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 23 Aug. 2010 Location: Watertown, Wisc Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
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http://g503.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=439d16b3229023292b7bee5fe0babb4b
I think you will be helped a lot by referring to the g503 and John Barton's engine rebuild thread. I did mine just using his guide.....had never done one before. You WILL need the services of a good machine shop to do some of the work but you will save money doing this yourself...Enjoy! "You are not really living unless you go beyond your comfort zone."
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eat,sleep,jeep
Proud father of a Marine, Army Dentist, Navy Pilot and a Princess. LIFE IS GOOD! 43MB,47CJ2-A,48CJ2-A X2,70Jeepster Commando 1/2 cab,84CJ-7, |
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kvanleuven
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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Thank you for all the helpful posts.
I have a 30' x 60' shop with an 8' gantry crane so pulling the actual engine should not be an issue. However, I do know that there is going to be a number of specialty tools I will need. My plan is to handle pulling and disassembling it myself. Next, I plan to take it to the local antique engine builder and let them handle going through it, measurements, etc and then handling whatever work is needed. From there, the big questions is whether I handle reassembly by myself. I do have an experienced engine builder 3 doors down that is willing to help so I think that I do have the right resources available. The reasons that I want to do it myself are... 1. Learning - I like to know everything about what I have. I like to know how it works, not just that it does. 2. $ Savings - I don't think that I am going to save anything on my first rebuild. However, I plan to do 3 rebuilds at a minimum, and I feel that long term, I can save $$ if I learn how to do it myself. |
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Daniel_Buck
Member Joined: 01 Apr. 2012 Location: Gilroy Status: Offline Points: 1200 |
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if you have someone near you who is experienced with building engines and is willing to help or at least give advice, I'd go for it! Sounds like you have plenty of shop space and tools. Just find out what he likes (beer, cookies, steak, whatever) and keep him supplied while he's there
I had never pulled a motor before, but I'm fairly good with a wrench (or at least I like to think I am, haha!) I tackled a diesel engine swap and alot of other upgrades/changes to my 2a over the passed few months (just doing the finishing touches now!) My neighbor/landlord is an old school hotrodder, he gave me alot of tips and advice when ever I got stuck and wasn't sure what to do next (not just with the engine swap, but with other things on the jeep too),. That, combined with alot of online research and asking questions on various internet forums was a huge help. Without those, I'd probably still be near square one, haha! I'll tell you this, at least in my experience, everything seems to take alot longer than I would have expected it to. But that's fine, I'm not on a schedule. I guess I just work slow Edited by Daniel_Buck - 05 Nov. 2013 at 10:42pm |
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Joe Frazer
Member Joined: 15 Mar. 2008 Location: Somerset, PA Status: Offline Points: 788 |
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I agree,,, take your time and don't rush anything. Cutting any corners to save a few measly dollars is really stupid for the long haul in my opinion! The Continentals are super engines and will deliver countless years of superior service for you in the long run if done correctly from the get go. Best of luck however you end up doing it!
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Collecting any/all Kaiser/Frazer/JEEP literature/handouts/toys etc.
46 CJ2A 50 Jeepster 51 Pick-up 54 Willys Aero Hardtop 54 Kaiser Willys Darrin 56 Wagon 56 Factory Proto-type FC 170 Truck |
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kvanleuven
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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A bit off topic but how often do you guys find these blocks with cracks in them? Talking to a guy recently that went through two cracked blocks before he found a good one. That has me a bit worried.
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scoutpilot
Member Joined: 30 Dec. 2008 Location: Asheboro, NC Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
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njtool
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 14 Jan. 2013 Location: Bound Brook NJ Status: Offline Points: 519 |
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Here is a link to my engine teardown. The only specialized tool I needed was a valve spring compressor and a torch to heat the frozen studs. Take it from me, if there is a broken stud, find someone who has the proper tools for removal.
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/the-voyage-begins_topic28247.html?KW= Let me know if you have any questions. I haven't done any more work to it, life got in the way. But I am planning on finishing it this winter. With all the resources out there, and the knowledge on here, rebuilding should be simple. The machine shop cost me between $1000-1100 for the engine decking, boring, crankshaft, canshaft, and everything else . |
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1946 CJ2A #44985
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Carlsjeep
Member Joined: 15 Jan. 2011 Location: Taylorsville Ky Status: Offline Points: 2642 |
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Carl Walck told me about half the blocks they get are cracked somewhere. Most of them are repairable.
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Life is only as good as you make it.
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njtool
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 14 Jan. 2013 Location: Bound Brook NJ Status: Offline Points: 519 |
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I took a welding class, where I magna fluxed my block, after discussing welding repair on a cast iron block, one of the old time instructors (who I respected) told me how to do it. Then he suggested I take a cutting wheel to my block and make an incision so I could practice the repair... ah no.
But I was hoping to have a cracked block so I can learn a repair, but my MB block was crack free. I would have liked to repair a block in class, but oh well. |
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1946 CJ2A #44985
1945 CJ2A #10220 M-416 Trailer K-38 Lineman Trailer |
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jimmcld
Member Joined: 17 Nov. 2005 Location: Denton, Texas Status: Offline Points: 187 |
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John Barton's guide is priceless! Get it and go for it. The only thing I missed in John's guide was the fact that most of the bolts go into the water jackets. Be sure to have a good sealant handy when replacing bolts.
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Jim
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WVCAHILLBILLY
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Joe
46 CJ2A 29385 Gumby "We shall pass this way on Earth but once,if there is any kindness we can show, or good act we can do, let us do it now, for we will never pass this way again."Stephen Grelle |
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njtool
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 14 Jan. 2013 Location: Bound Brook NJ Status: Offline Points: 519 |
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Thanks Hillybilly,
I have a new tablet and im still trying to figure out how to use it. I miss my pc sometimes. All this talk of rebuilding flatheads is making me itch to finish mine. I just have to find my missing parts and come up with a little more money for the rest of the rebuild kit. Maybe I can sell an organ, haha |
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1946 CJ2A #44985
1945 CJ2A #10220 M-416 Trailer K-38 Lineman Trailer |
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52 M38
Member Joined: 26 Nov. 2012 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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My full rebuild was about $3400. That replaced everything except the block, head, pan, crank, and connecting rods, even the oil pickup was trashed. I luckily found a NOS cam for $75 so i have my original as a spare. Like most other people I had hardened valve seats installed. A lot of it depends on how bad your engine is, which usually isn't known until the machine shops gets started. My engine needed to be over bored to .060. The block was planed and so was the head. One of the head bolts pulled out so that required a helicoil. Another consideration that you need to keep in mind is the larger the bore the more important the cooling capability is. You can get an over bored engine back to standard size by sleeving it, but that is at least another $500. I had to have my radiator recored since if you so much as looked at it too long it would spring a new leak. My radiator is now 4 cores deep with 154 cooling tubes. I could run a large V6 on it if i ever decide to. The radiator rebuild was almost $900.
Edited by 52 M38 - 10 Nov. 2013 at 1:24pm |
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