Cylinder Head Gasket info... L134 |
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Jeff_Davis
Member Joined: 15 July 2012 Location: Argentina & FL Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 12:40am |
I know there are a ton of threads on the Forum debating different head gaskets. I have purchased a fiber and metal gasket (Crown, from where else, China), and I am in Argentina, so my options are, well, none! There are no instructions with the gasket, so I seek your advice here. I was able to shave the head and get a good surface there. The block I did not tear down, so the surface I prepped with a wire wheel. It checks flat and I can't see any cracks. I put in all new studs. Question 1: I was going to use Permatex Super 300 on both sides of the gasket. Good or bad idea? The head gasket clearly has two different sides. The gasket has more metal on one side than the other. You can see it clearly in the photos. Question 2: Which side goes toward the block - fiber side or more metal side?? More Fiber Side: More Metal Side: As usual, thanks. I couldn't do this without you guys! |
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Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina 1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida) 1954 M-100 USMC Trailer 1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block |
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Schimms15
Member Joined: 17 Jan. 2011 Location: milwaukee, Wisc Status: Offline Points: 2953 |
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for my head gasket i spray it with copper coat then immediately place it on the block and start to torque it down. that stuff works fast but it works well. as for which side down I'm not sure i would see if it is marked anywhere or else check the companies website, i would also see if it lines up swell in both directions.
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46 2a
51 truck project named Karen |
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Jeff_Davis
Member Joined: 15 July 2012 Location: Argentina & FL Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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I like Copper Coat, too, for head gaskets. Unfortunately, no such thing available in the pueblo of Las Flores, Argentina. I only have Super 300. Or the range of RTV's (black, blue, grey...) are all here in Argentina and overused to a fault! These guys have RTV squeezing out of every crack and crevasse. |
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Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina 1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida) 1954 M-100 USMC Trailer 1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9611 |
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This is not much to go on, I know, but, if there is anything printed on the gasket, I usually put that side up. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Schimms15
Member Joined: 17 Jan. 2011 Location: milwaukee, Wisc Status: Offline Points: 2953 |
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i would not use any rtf. also still the super 300 does not have the heat range to work properly, max of 400 the cylinders should heat past that, now the head should stay colder than that as a whole however when combustion happens it will get much hotter than that. you can use it to keep everything in place and if it is like a paint that you put on thin i would say go for it. just put it on the block and let it tack up before you throw the gasket on, also do it on the head. good luck.
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46 2a
51 truck project named Karen |
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Lee MN
Member Joined: 13 Aug. 2008 Location: Harris, MN Status: Offline Points: 4923 |
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Jeff, if both surfaces are flat and clean you will need "NO" sealer, and certainly not any RTV. The head gasket is meant to be installed dry, some use copper kote, that is ok I guess. Where you will need sealer is on the block side of the studs, seal the threads with #2 permatex or a like NON-Hardening sealer, also do not screw the studs in tight, it tends to cock them as they bottom out and can make the head difficult to install, I screw them in till they bottom out and then back them off a 1/4 turn.
HTH, Lee |
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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bkreutz
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 17 Oct. 2006 Location: Fruitland Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7037 |
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I agree, and if you're having trouble finding #2 Permatex, go to a local airport (small aircraft) and see if you can find out where the mechanics buy it. I don't think it's possible to assemble an air cooled aircraft engine without it. |
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Carlsjeep
Member Joined: 15 Jan. 2011 Location: Taylorsville Ky Status: Offline Points: 2642 |
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The head gasket should have a stamped or printed Top Front on it. If not then place the gasket on the block in all four different positions and see which one covers everything best.
I can't imagine the gasket is not marked Top or Front or both.
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Life is only as good as you make it.
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Jeff_Davis
Member Joined: 15 July 2012 Location: Argentina & FL Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Carl, I agree, I have never seen a head gasket without marks, or minimally clear instructions included. This one has NADA - nothing - printed on it. I requested instructions from the seller (Kaiser-Willys) and they said "more metal side down (towards block)". |
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Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina 1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida) 1954 M-100 USMC Trailer 1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block |
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Jeff_Davis
Member Joined: 15 July 2012 Location: Argentina & FL Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Eureka! I have a tube of Permatex #2. It has been suggested here in the forum, and elsewhere, to use Permatex PTFE Thread Sealant in the studs that go into the water jacket areas. Do you think #2 is the way to go with all the studs?? |
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Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina 1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida) 1954 M-100 USMC Trailer 1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block |
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Schimms15
Member Joined: 17 Jan. 2011 Location: milwaukee, Wisc Status: Offline Points: 2953 |
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I think number 2 is the way to go on the studs for into the block, however not on the nuts for the studs, I used oil on my nuts to stop rust or use copper thread stuff (name is gone from my mind). the oil or copper will effect your torqueing I belive by about 10%. so you torque 70 and you actually are torqueing 77 ( I believe carls jeep told me this long ago not sure though hopefully he will chime in).
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46 2a
51 truck project named Karen |
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Carlsjeep
Member Joined: 15 Jan. 2011 Location: Taylorsville Ky Status: Offline Points: 2642 |
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Yes, always reduce the torque value by 10% when using oil on the threads. UNLESS, the rebuild manual tells you to use oil on the threads. If they specify oil on threads they have already reduced the torque valve in their specs.
Also, please don't use permatex on the head gasket, just on the threads that go into the block. If you can't get the Copper Coat spray don't use anything. However, back in the 1950's when I worked at my uncles shop they sprayed all fiber head gaskets liberally with aluminum spray paint and put it together while the paint was wet. If while your torquing the head studs and one goes soft on the torque while tightening it you probably have a stripped thread in the block. You will have to pull the head and use a solid type insert such as a Keensert in the block. There are several brands of solid thread inserts to choose from. DON'T use a helicoil, they are nearly impossible to seal the thread in the block. Also, I have had a nut lock up on a stud and start turning in the block. If you think that has happened replace the stud and nut. One way to see if the stud is turning while being torqued is to use a fine felt marker to put a straight line on the top of the stud with all the line going from side to side. As you torque the nuts remove the torque wrench and look at the mark on the stud to be sure it hasn't moved. I had 4 studs strip out in the block when I rebuilt my Jeep engine. The cast iron is softer than the steel stud and will strip out first. When that happened I bought a complete new set of studs and nuts because the nut locked up on those studs and I just didn't trust the others. The studs should be screwed all the way into the block and snugly tightened, not extremely tight, just well snugged in.
Edited by Carlsjeep - 08 Apr. 2014 at 1:48am |
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HCAT
Member Joined: 16 May 2013 Location: Pa Status: Offline Points: 403 |
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Dave
44 Willys MB |
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