Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Tech Questions and Answers
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Cylinder Head Gasket info...  L134
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Cylinder Head Gasket info... L134

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Jeff_Davis View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2012
Location: Argentina & FL
Status: Offline
Points: 551
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff_Davis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cylinder Head Gasket info... L134
    Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 12:40am

I know there are a ton of threads on the Forum debating different head gaskets.  I have purchased a fiber and metal gasket (Crown, from where else, China), and I am in Argentina, so my options are, well, none!  There are no instructions with the gasket, so I seek your advice here.

I was able to shave the head and get a good surface there.  The block I did not tear down, so the surface I prepped with a wire wheel.    It checks flat and I can't see any cracks.   I put in all new studs.

Question 1:  I was going to use Permatex Super 300 on both sides of the gasket.  Good or bad idea?

The head gasket clearly has two different sides. The gasket has more metal on one side than the other.  You can see it clearly in the photos. 

Question 2:  Which side goes toward the block - fiber side or more metal side??

More Fiber Side:

More Metal Side:


As usual, thanks. I couldn't do this without you guys!

Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina
1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida)
1954 M-100 USMC Trailer
1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block
Back to Top
Schimms15 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jan. 2011
Location: milwaukee, Wisc
Status: Offline
Points: 2953
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schimms15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 12:52am
for my head gasket i spray it with copper coat then immediately place it on the block and start to torque it down. that stuff works fast but it works well. as for which side down I'm not sure i would see if it is marked anywhere or else check the companies website, i would also see if it lines up swell in both directions. 
46 2a
51 truck project named Karen
Back to Top
Jeff_Davis View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2012
Location: Argentina & FL
Status: Offline
Points: 551
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff_Davis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 12:58am

I like Copper Coat, too, for head gaskets.

Unfortunately, no such thing available in the pueblo of Las Flores, Argentina.  I only have Super 300.  Or the range of RTV's (black, blue, grey...) are all here in Argentina and overused to a fault!  These guys have RTV squeezing out of every crack and crevasse.

Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina
1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida)
1954 M-100 USMC Trailer
1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block
Back to Top
Bruce W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: Northeast Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 9611
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 5:28am
  This is not much to go on, I know, but, if there is anything printed on the gasket, I usually put that side up.    BW
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
Back to Top
Schimms15 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jan. 2011
Location: milwaukee, Wisc
Status: Offline
Points: 2953
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schimms15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 6:27am
i would not use any rtf. also still the super 300 does not have the heat range to work properly, max of 400 the cylinders should heat past that, now the head should stay colder than that as a whole however when combustion happens it will get much hotter than that. you can use it to keep everything in place and if it is like a paint that you put on thin i would say go for it. just put it on the block and let it tack up before you throw the gasket on, also do it on the head. good luck. 
46 2a
51 truck project named Karen
Back to Top
Lee MN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 Aug. 2008
Location: Harris, MN
Status: Offline
Points: 4923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 4:03pm
Jeff, if both surfaces are flat and clean you will need "NO" sealer, and certainly not any RTV. The head gasket is meant to be installed dry, some use copper kote, that is ok I guess. Where you will need sealer is on the block side of the studs, seal the threads with #2 permatex or a like NON-Hardening sealer, also do not screw the studs in tight, it tends to cock them as they bottom out and can make the head difficult to install, I screw them in till they bottom out and then back them off a 1/4 turn.

HTH, Lee
               LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys
49 2A
“If you wait, you only get older”
67 M715
American Made Rolling History
Back to Top
bkreutz View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 17 Oct. 2006
Location: Fruitland Idaho
Status: Offline
Points: 7037
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr. 2014 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Lee (MN) Lee (MN) wrote:

Jeff, if both surfaces are flat and clean you will need "NO" sealer, and certainly not any RTV. The head gasket is meant to be installed dry, some use copper kote, that is ok I guess. Where you will need sealer is on the block side of the studs, seal the threads with #2 permatex or a like NON-Hardening sealer, also do not screw the studs in tight, it tends to cock them as they bottom out and can make the head difficult to install, I screw them in till they bottom out and then back them off a 1/4 turn.

HTH, Lee


I agree, and if you're having trouble finding #2 Permatex, go to a local airport (small aircraft) and see if you can find out where the mechanics buy it. I don't think it's possible to assemble an air cooled aircraft engine without it. LOL
Gale

47 CJ2A 142857
47 Bantam T3-C 16271


Photo page http://bkreutz.smugmug.com/
Back to Top
Carlsjeep View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jan. 2011
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 2642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2014 at 4:40am
The head gasket should have a stamped or printed Top Front on it. If not then place the gasket on the block in all four different positions and see which one covers everything best.

I can't imagine the gasket is not marked Top or Front or both.
Life is only as good as you make it.
Back to Top
Jeff_Davis View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2012
Location: Argentina & FL
Status: Offline
Points: 551
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff_Davis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2014 at 6:17pm

Carl, I agree, I have never seen a head gasket without marks, or minimally clear instructions included.   This one has NADA - nothing - printed on it.     I requested instructions from the seller (Kaiser-Willys) and they said "more metal side down (towards block)".

Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina
1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida)
1954 M-100 USMC Trailer
1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block
Back to Top
Jeff_Davis View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2012
Location: Argentina & FL
Status: Offline
Points: 551
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff_Davis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2014 at 6:20pm

Eureka!  I have a tube of Permatex #2.

It has been suggested here in the forum, and elsewhere, to use Permatex PTFE Thread Sealant in the studs that go into the water jacket areas.   Do you think #2 is the way to go with all the studs??

Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina
1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida)
1954 M-100 USMC Trailer
1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block
Back to Top
Schimms15 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jan. 2011
Location: milwaukee, Wisc
Status: Offline
Points: 2953
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schimms15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2014 at 7:22pm
I think number 2 is the way to go on the studs for into the block, however not on the nuts for the studs, I used oil on my nuts to stop rust or use copper thread stuff (name is gone from my mind). the oil or copper will effect your torqueing I belive by about 10%. so you torque 70 and you actually are torqueing 77 ( I believe carls jeep told me this long ago not sure though hopefully he will chime in).
46 2a
51 truck project named Karen
Back to Top
Carlsjeep View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jan. 2011
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 2642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr. 2014 at 1:37am
Yes, always reduce the torque value by 10% when using oil on the threads. UNLESS, the rebuild manual tells you to use oil on the threads. If they specify oil on threads they have already reduced the torque valve in their specs.

Also, please don't use permatex on the head gasket, just on the threads that go into the block. If you can't get the Copper Coat spray don't use anything. However, back in the 1950's when I worked at my uncles shop they sprayed all fiber head gaskets liberally with aluminum spray paint and put it together while the paint was wet.

If while your torquing the head studs and one goes soft on the torque while tightening it you probably have a stripped thread in the block. You will have to pull the head and use a solid type insert such as a Keensert in the block. There are several brands of solid thread inserts to choose from. DON'T use a helicoil, they are nearly impossible to seal the thread in the block.

Also, I have had a nut lock up on a stud and start turning in the block. If you think that has happened replace the stud and nut. One way to see if the stud is turning while being torqued is to use a fine felt marker to put a straight line on the top of the stud with all the line going from side to side. As you torque the nuts remove the torque wrench and look at the mark on the stud to be sure it hasn't moved.

I had 4 studs strip out in the block when I rebuilt my Jeep engine. The cast iron is softer than the steel stud and will strip out first. When that happened I bought a complete new set of studs and nuts because the nut locked up on those studs and I just didn't trust the others.

The studs should be screwed all the way into the block and snugly tightened, not extremely tight, just well snugged in.


Edited by Carlsjeep - 08 Apr. 2014 at 1:48am
Life is only as good as you make it.
Back to Top
HCAT View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 May 2013
Location: Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HCAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr. 2014 at 1:58am
Originally posted by Carlsjeep Carlsjeep wrote:

Yes, always reduce the torque value by 10% when using oil on the threads. UNLESS, the rebuild manual tells you to use oil on the threads. If they specify oil on threads they have already reduced the torque valve in their specs.

Also, please don't use permatex on the head gasket, just on the threads that go into the block. If you can't get the Copper Coat spray don't use anything. However, back in the 1950's when I worked at my uncles shop they sprayed all fiber head gaskets liberally with aluminum spray paint and put it together while the paint was wet.

If while your torquing the head studs and one goes soft on the torque while tightening it you probably have a stripped thread in the block. You will have to pull the head and use a solid type insert such as a Keensert in the block. There are several brands of solid thread inserts to choose from. DON'T use a helicoil, they are nearly impossible to seal the thread in the block.

Also, I have had a nut lock up on a stud and start turning in the block. If you think that has happened replace the stud and nut. One way to see if the stud is turning while being torqued is to use a fine felt marker to put a straight line on the top of the stud with all the line going from side to side. As you torque the nuts remove the torque wrench and look at the mark on the stud to be sure it hasn't moved.

I had 4 studs strip out in the block when I rebuilt my Jeep engine. The cast iron is softer than the steel stud and will strip out first. When that happened I bought a complete new set of studs and nuts because the nut locked up on those studs and I just didn't trust the others.

The studs should be screwed all the way into the block and snugly tightened, not extremely tight, just well snugged in.
X2   .....I used teflon thread sealant on the stud threads and only made them hand tight into the block.... and..... so far so good with a felt gasket and copper spray. 
Dave
44 Willys MB
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.