Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Modifications from original
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Submarine Jeep
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

The Submarine Jeep

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 7891011>
Author
Message
Nick_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 05 May 2014
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 3:22am
After all this time I still haven't decided, but have unintentionally acquired parts for both builds. Here's my dilemma.

F-Head Swap
I own a running F-head with good compresssion, T98, D18 and a set of 5.38 axles. Easy way to get rid of my blown rear and front limited slip in favor of loc-rites. No need for Teralow gears. Cost is super low at $1,200 to rebuild the trans, waterproofing, carb etc. 

After driving this setup I absolutely love the low gears and wouldn't want anything less. Since it's always churning, power steering isn't a deal breaker as I previously imagined. Thing idled up a 60 degree slope.

Crawl ratio on 5.88: 85:1

6.0 V8 Swap
Also own an LQ4 6.0 and the coveted offset flanged D44 from a 1970-1971 CJ5 with 3.73 gearing. Not ideal, but wondering if I could find someone who wants to trade their 4.27 for mine. With the intentions of selling off the F-head setup, this swap is about $3,700 including rebuilt trans/tcase with Teralow, adapters, PS, etc.

Crawl ratio on 4.27: 88:1
Crawl ratio on 3.73: 77:1

The F-head is most definitely all I need, anything else is excessive. But I'm sick of carburetors. Waterproofing the GM engine is my biggest concern. Is an ECU in a sealed box and connectors filled with dialectical grease enough? It'll start every time I turn the key switch. But it's a complicated swap. But it'll sound wicked. I know what I want, and I know what I should really do.




Edited by Nick_ - 03 May 2020 at 3:26am
Back to Top
Flatfender Ben View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2014
Location: Nyssa OR
Status: Offline
Points: 2657
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flatfender Ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 4:26am
The F-head would be so much cooler!
Big smile
1946 cj2a desert dog
1946 cj2a bulldog
1948 cj2a blue jeep
1953 cj3b yard dog
1955 willys wagon
1955 willys pickup
1956 willys pickup boomer
1960 fc 170
1968 jeepster commando
1990 Grand wagoneer
Back to Top
duffer View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 Feb. 2012
Location: Bozeman, MT
Status: Offline
Points: 1076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2020 at 2:39am
IMO, a 6.0 with a CR 77:1 will get you ANYWHERE you want to go.  For reference, that is very close to the same CR the JK Rubicons have but in those with the much touted pentastar 3.6 you have a totally anemic engine below 1500 to 2000 rpm's.  You will have suffice torque out of that 6.0 at 1000 to go over just about any obstacle.  And in a dissenting opinion, there isn't much anything that sounds better than a LS.
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
Back to Top
chasendeer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Feb. 2012
Location: Napa,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1081
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2020 at 3:17am
Put the f head in. You’re only sick of junk 151 carbs!!
Jay
Back to Top
Stev View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 27 July 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2020 at 2:05pm
Nick,

There is something about a Willys engine in a Willys Jeep with flat fenders.

Jeff has some ideas on putting fuel injection in the the carb of a L134 or a F134 that might be the ticket.  You should talk to him about it.

Bob/ Stev
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
Back to Top
Anvil View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07 June 2017
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2020 at 6:39pm
Well, the really good news here is any of those combos will be way better than the M151 package.  No low range was always a head scratcher and they always sucked for anything other than their intended purpose.  And even then they still sucked, but not as hard as the first gen HMMWVs.

I'd go with the F134, the V6, and then the V8 in that order.  If you have plans for bigger everything in the future, I'd go with the V6 first.  Maybe not that V6 but since you have it, no reason not too, it's a great engine.  Exhaust note is not really a function issue.  I'd save the V8 for something that needs it.  Now, if you just need it for your wants, that's a whole different weighting of criteria.
A good anvil does not fear the hammer.

Instagram
Back to Top
Nick_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 05 May 2014
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 4:11am
Thanks guys for all the suggestions, it helps keep my sanity.

If I would've had the foresight to complete simple measuring, this engine debate wouldn't have existed. To fit the 6.0, I would have to convert the accessories to LS6 so it's as small as possible. Even then, the firewall needs cut 4" back to clear my radiator. The intake would be flipped around to be under the dash, then routed out the passenger side firewall back into the engine compartment.

Even with his work, the rear driveshaft could only be 8" long yoke-to-yoke. With some research I've found anyone running an LS in their 4x4 flatty has either stretched the engine compartment or the tub. Basically: it's impossible to run this setup in a standard wheelbase.



For comparison, that's roughly half the size of a T98 driveshaft.



Introducing the F134/T98 setup! This is the easiest swap, and as most of you mentioned also the most authentic. Motor mounts and exhaust is the extent of my fabrication. Plan is to have a traditional exhaust under the Jeep with a manual cutout to the hater pipe for water fording. I think it's gonna be great.

Possible TBI setup with David's research from his supercharged f-head project.


Back to Top
Flatfender Ben View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2014
Location: Nyssa OR
Status: Offline
Points: 2657
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flatfender Ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 4:48am
SWEET Clap
Looking forward to seeing it come together!
1946 cj2a desert dog
1946 cj2a bulldog
1948 cj2a blue jeep
1953 cj3b yard dog
1955 willys wagon
1955 willys pickup
1956 willys pickup boomer
1960 fc 170
1968 jeepster commando
1990 Grand wagoneer
Back to Top
Nick_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 05 May 2014
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 4:16am
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

Even with his work, the rear driveshaft could only be 8" long yoke-to-yoke. With some research I've found anyone running an LS in their 4x4 flatty has either stretched the engine compartment or the tub. Basically: it's impossible to run this setup in a standard wheelbase.

After a few sleepless nights, I'm retracting this statement. 
Just couldn't help myself. Turns out the way I went about measuring was wrong. Ended up "collecting" an L-head, F-head, 225 V6, 4.3 V6, 2014 LV3 V6 and 2015 L83 V8. Transmissions T90, T98, SM465. I believe a 13.5ish driveshaft is easily possible with the L83 - which is the same length as a factory T98 setup. I'll save the science for a separate thread.



In the meantime I'm continuing with the T98 setup for the 2021 Rubicon trip. These axles are from a CJ5, thus 19 spline D44. They're cleaned up and ready to install lockers, bearings etc.





Looking for opinions on the transfercase whether to rebuild it stock or add the Teralow gears. I'm happy with the deep 1st gear in stock form, but have read about others wanting 50:1+ in 2nd gear for optimal momentum. Is it worth the fat cash - or will I be all around too low?

Stock D18
1st 85:1
2nd 41:1
3rd 22:1
4th 13:1

Teralow D18
1st 108:1
2nd 52:1
3rd 29:1
4th 17:1
Back to Top
smfulle View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 16 Sep. 2010
Location: Ogden, Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 6123
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 6:49am
That 50ish to one is where my low gear is at. Once in a while I wish I had a lower gear, but not very often. Mostly coming down stuff. I think I’d do a lot of jumping back and forth between 80 and 40. Ones a little too slow and ones a little too fast.

Stan
48 CJ2A (Grampa's Jeep)
59 Chevy 1/2 ton
Grampa's Jeep Build Thread
Back to Top
Nick_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 05 May 2014
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 3:27pm
Thanks for your input Stan. I forgot to include overdrive gears in this, which puts me at 64:1 in 1st gear overdrive with the stock D18. Should be about perfect then.
Back to Top
Pope891 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2018
Location: Ridgefield, CT
Status: Offline
Points: 378
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 3:32pm
This is going to be cool to watch.  I'd love to learn more about that LV3.

Instagram #flatfenderpope

My Build
Back to Top
Nick_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 05 May 2014
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Pope891 Pope891 wrote:

This is going to be cool to watch.  I'd love to learn more about that LV3.


I did take some video explaining how much room a Jeep had to fit certain engines while I had all those parts. The LV3 is certainly a cool engine, but I've found the Gen V GM engines are so new the aftermarket hasn't caught up yet. For example no center dump block hugger headers for the L83.

Gen V engines have cylinder deactivation which isn't holding up... dare I say as reliable as the wankel. Almost every engine for sale has a bad lifter. There's cam kits for the V8 which removes it, but I haven't seen one for the V6 yet. Nor does the V6 have a short oil pan or intake manifold. Great power and packaging for its size, but it's going to be heavy DIY for the moment.

I'm going with the L83 myself after this Rubicon trip.
Back to Top
Flatfender Ben View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2014
Location: Nyssa OR
Status: Offline
Points: 2657
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flatfender Ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 7:54pm
Hey what’s the plan for the cool looking 46-47 2A sitting behind the display of engine choices?
1946 cj2a desert dog
1946 cj2a bulldog
1948 cj2a blue jeep
1953 cj3b yard dog
1955 willys wagon
1955 willys pickup
1956 willys pickup boomer
1960 fc 170
1968 jeepster commando
1990 Grand wagoneer
Back to Top
OnlyOneDR View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 July 2016
Location: R
Status: Offline
Points: 456
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnlyOneDR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan. 2021 at 5:38am
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

Gen V engines have cylinder deactivation which isn't holding up... dare I say as reliable as the wankel. Almost every engine for sale has a bad lifter. There's cam kits for the V8 which removes it, but I haven't seen one for the V6 yet. Nor does the V6 have a short oil pan or intake manifold. Great power and packaging for its size, but it's going to be heavy DIY for the moment.

I put nearly 160k on a 2014 Silverado with the 5.3L Ecotech3.  it had none of the issues with cylinder deactivation or with carbon-fouling the heads that everyone told me that it would have.  I would wring the power out of it regularly so I am betting that not "going easy" on it kept some of those issues away.
Searching for time to put it all together...
1950 CJ-3A #37751 In Pieces
1969 Chevy Blazer Resto-Mod Waiting for its day...
2001 Nissan Frontier Crawler Adventure Rig
Back to Top
73 cj5 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 Feb. 2014
Location: Mississippi
Status: Offline
Points: 203
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73 cj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan. 2021 at 10:22pm
In a year at the GM dealership I was at there were at the very least 40 cam and lifter replacements on trucks with the DOD/AFM. While I worked at a machine shop the hot ticket item was the DOD/AFM "delete" kit. 
CJ3B
Back to Top
Nick_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 05 May 2014
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 10:27pm
9 weeks until Rubicon!

In a throwback to 2019, I'm on a tight deadline again. Figured I'll do weekly updates for our entertainment until the week I leave.




January to now recap: An absolute domino effect. I removed the overdrive from one of my Jeeps to install on the Sub. Discovered it needed a full rebuild, and checking Herm's website I could buy a brand new one for just a bit over the cost a rebuild kit.



Watched some videos of T98's and decided I wanted even lower gearing since I'll have a new overdrive to split shift. So I decided to buy Herm's D18 with Teralow gears installed. Around this time I realized you can't buy a torque-lock slider for an original T98 (which prevents a worn trans from popping out of gear) nor any other parts. Herm's T98 is essentially a T18 with 4 cyl adapters, has the fancy slider and parts availability. Thus I needed a whole new trans as well.

My overdrive project turned into a new drop-in drivetrain. Herm is very busy and thus it has taken longer than expected to arrive. It arrived at the airport this weekend, and I'll retrieve it shortly.



As I'm going the V8 route in the future, this drivetrain will eventually end up in my fake MB. So I ditched the F-head and sent my MB engine out for a full rebuild. It's already back and ready to go.

I ordered two of Holley's new single barrel Sniper's to modify for the flathead, but the delivery date has been extended every month since December. Current date is June 18th. I really hope I can get the setup in time.



This is how the Sub currently sits. I'm making popcorn now.



Originally posted by Flatfender Ben Flatfender Ben wrote:

Hey what’s the plan for the cool looking 46-47 2A sitting behind the display of engine choices?

I sold it to a guy along with my original T98 setup. It looked like a long lost brother of Grandpa's Jeep.
Back to Top
Nick_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 05 May 2014
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 8:46pm
7 weeks until Rubicon - Holy Moly

It wouldn't be the Submarine without nonstop battles. I picked up my order from Herm last weekend: The T98/Teralow D18/Overdrive.



There were no instructions on the mounting setup so I went in blind. Essentially the black mount bolts onto the tcase adapter, which then bolts onto the metal bracket. The bracket is then welded to the backside of the trans crossmember.

After struggling for a while and comparing notes with my buddy, we realized the black mount was incorrect. None of the holes lined up with the metal bracket. Once I got that sorted with a bunch of grinding, I went to install the crossmember. It was hanging completely below the metal bracket, which is about 2-3" off:



Between the bad mount and this issue, I spent the entire Saturday trouble shooting. Luckily Jay figured out they mistakenly installed a Scout D18 adapter which is clocked different than a Jeep one. That explains why the tcase was hanging too low.



I removed the tcase so the mounting system would fit, and continued on. 48cj2a.com was a priceless asset in finding exactly where to mount the crossmember onto my frame.





For a stock Jeep, the T98 would simply bolt in after moving the crossmember back. Since the 'Sub was designed around the M151 drivetrain, it's like installing a foreign setup. Alot of work.

I used my stock CJ3A as reference for cutting out the transmission tunnel. The longer T98 drivetrain will interfere with my custom fuel tank and seat frames. I'm probably going to buy a stock fuel tank and modify my seat legs.




I owe Ryan a huge thank you for sending me a pair of stock CJ3A motor mounts! I posted on Facebook wanting to buy a set, and he put these in the mail the very next day.



At this moment I'm having massive troubles getting the engine placed. It's tilted towards the driver side, and a bit crooked front to back.



My driver side mounting bracket looks a little tweaked. I wouldn't be surprised if my frame is bent as well.



The engine has *no* clearance on the dual master cylinder, and I ended up smashing both brake lines coming out of it. In the below pic, the engine is resting on top of the line.



At this moment I need to wait for the proper Jeep D18 adapter. Then I can hard mount the tcase onto the crossmember, and use it as reference for adjusting the engine position. I believe I can raise/lower the motor mounts via "shims" to fix the angle. These setbacks were pretty crushing, but we soldier on.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 7891011>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.