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Omix Sector Shaft Safety Warning Fellows!!!!!!!

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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2021 at 10:50am
I would also like to know what lubrication was used in the Ross box. This could be a factor in the failure. A file test failure on the pins would be indicative of poor manufacturing technique and even poorer quality control. A good file test would be no metal removed with a clean sharp file.

Edited by SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A - 21 Oct. 2021 at 10:51am
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.)
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Bruce W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2021 at 11:42am
  When this was new, was the worm gear/shaft replaced as well, or has this been running on a worn worm?
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2021 at 12:55pm
My comment about the pictures being fishy perplexing was due to the type of wear on the sector pins.
As the sector is rotated off center the pin on the leading side climbs the worm and the trailing pin contact drops lower. So the wear should be radial. (like in Bitz photo).

The severe wear looked like the pins had been hit with a grinder, and the right pin has lines that go vertically to the tip, not radially.

Incidentally, that's not one of the ones that was imported/distributed by OMIX.


Edited by Joe Friday - 22 Oct. 2021 at 7:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48willys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2021 at 2:00pm
I was going back through this thread, someone on page 6 had the same pin wear on a shaft marked WAT.
1946 cj2a #28680
1948 chevy 3800 thriftmaster
1946-50's cj2a-3a farm jeep
1993 yj, aka the yj7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2021 at 2:59pm
The wear on the WAT shaft on page 6 is similar but not as severe , and is what I described as radial, and normal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2021 at 6:41pm
I just thought I’d post this to share what happened to me, didn’t know I was opening a can of worms here.  The pictures are of the shaft just as I took it out of the jeep, kinda baffled me that anyone would think something here was “staged “.  The worm gear I used was in good shape with no signs of wear at all so I thought it would be okay to reuse, as to lubrication I ran 75W-140 gear oil in the box and checked it periodically to keep it topped up.  As to a file test, I’m not a metallurgist so the thought never occurred to me, it seems to me that the wear from a smooth worm gear rather proved that they haven’t been hardened properly. Just my amateur observation. It seems that others have had similar experiences, I noticed someone on page 4 posted pictures of a rather badly worn shaft that only had 500ish miles on it so I just thought I’d add my experience to maybe help someone else head off trouble. 
Hope this clears everything up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2021 at 8:57pm
No problem. As Bruce W did a better job at, we're just trying to figure out the root cause.
Other than being rapid pin wear, in my opinion, yours doesn't have the same wear pattern as on page 4.

Page 4 is what I expected from a 'soft' pin. Yours looks like , well, I don't know what it looks like. Overtightened? Flat towed? Tightsteer? Pure guesses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 10:15am
I did not use Tightsteer,  I’ve never flat towed the jeep,  I don’t believe I overtightened it but hey, maybe I did. 
Hey just a thought, but maybe next time just ask me the conditions around the part instead of accusing me of something “fishy”. I just came on here to share a bad experience, I wasn’t trying to pull anything over.  Kinda makes a guy just want to not bother. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 10:48am
TJo,

Thanks for posting the issue.  It gives us something to look out for.  I never see that kind of ware.  I do see the ware on the bushings.  My guess is the part was not hardened.  

Check the condition of the worm gear when you install the replacement one.  IF you see anything odd please post a photo of it.

 
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 4:25pm
Hi TJo. Thanks for your info etc. it was and continues to be a very complex issue for such a simple set of parts. Maybe I am wrong but hope not. I don’t think the reference to fishy was being applied to you or your post, I am thinking something fishy is in ref to the damage so fast.  Please continue to share and post as I sure gain insight from everyone’s perspective. 

Bitz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 8:18pm
I went back and changed my posts to 'perplexing'.

The pins or 'studs' are intended to be carburized and hardened to rockwell C scale hardness of 60 to a depth  of .030 to .040. I suppose your example could have worn past that.

The stud/pin has an included angle of 29 degrees with a breakover radius of .035 to .040,
Yours appears to be worn more than .040 based on that entire radius missing.



The normal wear pattern is not parallel or symmetrical ( like the shaft in your photo) due to the stud moving on an axis below the cam, and on a radius of 1.625 inches from the shaft connected to the pitman arm.

I think Bruce was on the right track thinking it might not be the correct 12-14-12 cam, or badly worn.

So I wasn't trying to insult you, I was trying to help, but  I still find it 'perplexing' and won't lose any more sleep trying to figure it out. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 9:34pm
Tjo,

Try not to let your feelings get in the way of the tremendous knowledge base on this forum. 

I too have not seen a wear pattern like that on the sector pins, but I don't know as much about this stuff as others, not as much as Joe anyway.

A lot of the import parts available now are simply not up to par. The pins on that sector may have been too soft, and may not have been cut at the proper angle. Didn't see whether your worm was an original, or a reproduction, but I have seen those cut wrong too.

So, there are a lot of ways these things can go wrong. 
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom in RI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2023 at 11:56am
Doing a garage cleanup and found this with a bunch of M38 steering parts.  I went through this full thread and dont see anything specific on this part.
Two things that may be alarms - is it really made in USA?
And most have machined pins on the bach where these look peened.
I probably purchased this 15 years ago and not from Omix.
Any experiences or cross references to say if this is a good or bad part?
Thanks


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2023 at 2:36pm
Tom, I can't speak for the burrs on the shaft, but that appears to be an earlier crown part.
The omix part ran the shaft into the arm, and welded it on the back side. The correct construction was forged, and the smaller button where the adjusted contacts is a hardened insert.
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