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Dauntless Drivetrain Change

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JeepFever View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2020 at 4:59am

With the clutch cable and motor mounts fixed,  I turned attention back to tranny cover.    As a reminder,  the floor had to be cut out to allow the tranny and Dana 300 to be raised up.   I decided to  duplicate the footprint of M38 cover  (but bulged up).   My intent is to make it look like it might have come from the factory.

This is the floor opening with M38 cover removed. . (Love the access to drivetrain).



Passenger side  . . .  tack welded up today



Driver side . . . tack welded . .   similar photo posted earlier,  but there was a little more progress today.



Barring any unforeseen interruptions . . I am hoping to finish up the welding,  add some filler and primer,  then get painted tomorrow.

This would complete the replacement "floor".     The 3rd piece of this group,   the tranny cover,  still needs to be completed  (and some shifter boots).    


Edited by JeepFever - 28 June 2020 at 5:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2020 at 6:34am
Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

69:1 is too fast ...
   

Cmonmaaan! Any slower than that and you have too long to think about it. Smile 
Course, I can’t do the math and maybe 69:1 with 3.73 gears is too fast. Your v-6 should have not trouble pushing you 60 with lower gears. 

I occasionally wish for a little lower than 50:1, but not very often. I have found that a little bit more momentum is pretty helpful on the rocks.

 I do have the stock 5:38 gears and my Go Devil will push me up to sixty easy on a down hill and if I have a good run on the level. I do have to have hard (30 psi) tires though.

Slow does get you more style points, but not if you don’t complete the climb. 
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2020 at 2:52am
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

69:1 is too fast ...
   

Cmonmaaan! Any slower than that and you have too long to think about it. Smile 

LOL

But I am hoping for style points.

It is funny how I keep flip/flopping.    After an offroad event,  I want to change everything to be better at that.   Then the more time I spend at home,  I decide that it would be better to stick with what I have.

The 3.73's are great onroad with Dauntless,  going 40 mph or higher.    So often though,  in how I use the Jeep,  I am cruising backroads, and have to go slower than 40.  Down shifting to 2nd gear results in too much rpm. (because of the big gap between high and 2nd)  So I am often trying to decide whether lug the engine.  (it will pull,  but with vibration etc)  or downshift and live with the high rpm,  (which I am not a fan of)

I wish 4.10s were easy swap.  I think that would by my sweet spot,  but just not worth the cost or time to switch.   3.73 is close enough,  so probably will stay there for time being.

I really like the TrueTrac limited slip in rear for normal use.   I will just have to live with fact that it loses style points in the really twisty stuff. Cry







Edited by JeepFever - 20 July 2020 at 11:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 5:03am
Update on the tranny cover . .  finished welding the lower 2 pieces,  some filler, and primer.   

Now just need to get the top cover done.    Checking the fit.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 5:36am
Tranny cover was supposed to be today's project,  but unexpectedly got a shipment of other goodies today (FedEx delivers on Sunday Shocked)     So I switched to a more functional project (adding shims to modify pinion angle on rear diff).    After adding the Walck's springs,  the pinion angle on the rear diff became more parallel to ground.   Ideally in this setup,  (with CV joint on Xfer case output),  the pinion should point straight at the CV joint. 



These angled shims should get things lined up again.     New u-bolts were required,  because the current ones would be too short with the added shim.   (I trimmed the originals to be as short as possible,  (even with bottom of nuts)



Wilson will lose 1/4" of lift with these shims,  but that is ok,  because the new springs added more lift than I really cared for anyway.  Wink

These shims have hole in center,  to engage with the head of bolt going thru spring pack, this should keep the wedges from squeezing out.    They were too wide and too long,  so I cut them to fit,   still have some cleanup and painting to do.



Edited by JeepFever - 20 July 2020 at 5:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 1:35pm
Tranny cover is looking great!  When it's done it will look "factory"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

....  After adding the Walck's springs,  the pinion angle on the rear diff became more parallel to ground.   Ideally in this setup,  (with CV joint on Xfer case output),  the pinion should point straight at the CV joint....

Some food for thought, a degree or two down (i.e., more parallel with the ground) isn't a bad thing.  The pinion will come up a little when you're on the power anyway, putting it too high if it was perfect at rest, but bringing it back up to the CV joint if it started a little low.
Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Barry S Barry S wrote:

Tranny cover is looking great!  When it's done it will look "factory"!

Thanks!  That is what I am shooting for.


Originally posted by Nothing Special Nothing Special wrote:

Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

....  After adding the Walck's springs,  the pinion angle on the rear diff became more parallel to ground.   Ideally in this setup,  (with CV joint on Xfer case output),  the pinion should point straight at the CV joint....

Some food for thought, a degree or two down (i.e., more parallel with the ground) isn't a bad thing.  The pinion will come up a little when you're on the power anyway, putting it too high if it was perfect at rest, but bringing it back up to the CV joint if it started a little low.

I have measured it a bunch of times since adding the new springs.   It seems to have settled in at approx 5-6 degree difference between the angle of driveshaft and angle of pinion.   These shims are 4 degree,  so that should put it in the 1-2 degree range you mention.

Somewhat on the subject,  does raising the front cause any issue with lubrication of the front pinion bearing?    Wilson needed a new diff cover anyway,  so I got a stronger one that just happens to have a higher fill hole.   This will make up for the difference that the additional 4 degree tilt raises the pinion bearing  (so will be no worse than before).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 3:27pm
Ron, I think you’re on the right track. With standard u joints it’s good to have the parallel to each other. With the cv joint you are right about the pinion pointing at the t-case output. I wouldn’t worry about lubrication with the angle you have. I ran my cj5 with really steep pinion angle for about 10 years and the bearings were totally fine when I took the diff apart. Just my opinion though. Based off my personal experience. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 3:52pm
Good to hear.

I think total pinion angle will be 14 degrees from horizontal.    If I remember,    it was about 10 degrees before this change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2020 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

I have measured it a bunch of times since adding the new springs.   It seems to have settled in at approx 5-6 degree difference between the angle of driveshaft and angle of pinion.   These shims are 4 degree,  so that should put it in the 1-2 degree range you mention.

Sounds good!  And you're right, 5 - 6 degree is definitely too much.

Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

Somewhat on the subject,  does raising the front cause any issue with lubrication of the front pinion bearing?    Wilson needed a new diff cover anyway,  so I got a stronger one that just happens to have a higher fill hole.   This will make up for the difference that the additional 4 degree tilt raises the pinion bearing  (so will be no worse than before).

It definitely can make a difference.  I'm not sure that I'd worry about it with only 4 degrees, but filling it a little higher doesn't seem like a bad plan either.  I have no idea how far over you'd need to go before running into a problem, but I wouldn't guess it's real sensitive to overfilling.  If you raise the fluid level too high I don't think you'd get into the foaming problem you get from overfilling an engine.  But I imagine you'd get into more problems with leaks.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2020 at 3:34am
Got some time today to work on the jigsaw-puzzle tranny-cover.  The "base" of top cover is in place,  now just need to fill the empty space.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug. 2020 at 4:10am
Holes spot-welded in.     Next steps = finish welding,  then filler and paint.



Jig-saw puzzle complete.  Smile


Edited by JeepFever - 09 Aug. 2020 at 4:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug. 2020 at 11:20am
No more winter ride heat!!  ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug. 2020 at 12:04pm
Great job Ron! I know how much of a pain that job can be and it turned out great! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AKoller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug. 2020 at 2:52pm
At this point I think you’re committed to your current drivetrain. With this much effort in a transmission tunnel I don’t see you changing it anytime soon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug. 2020 at 2:44am
Originally posted by Bob W Bob W wrote:

No more winter ride heat!!  ;)

If I attend another PA event in middle of winter,   I will be removing that top plate for sure.  Wink

Originally posted by Millennium falcon Millennium falcon wrote:

Great job Ron! I know how much of a pain that job can be and it turned out great!

Thanks!  It was time consuming, but somewhat fun.    Cut out a piece (close to size),   tack weld a few places,  hammer/dolly the shape,  tack weld some more. . .  There might be a better way to assemble a jigsaw puzzle,  but this actually worked fair well.


Originally posted by AKoller AKoller wrote:

At this point I think you’re committed to your current drivetrain. With this much effort in a transmission tunnel I don’t see you changing it anytime soon!

That is one of the reasons I waited so long to finish this, but now -> I have no plans to change drivetrain anytime soon,  if ever.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug. 2020 at 4:16am
These photos look too shiny compared to real life.  Confused  I painted flat black.  (and tried to "age" a little)




Still need some boots on the shifters,    but I think I am going to work on a radiator fan shroud first.




Edited by JeepFever - 12 Aug. 2020 at 4:23am
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