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Father son project cj2/3

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jps4jeep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jps4jeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2019 at 6:00pm
Found your thread trying to find some ideas/inspiration on a motor swap for my project and I just read this entire build and it is impressive! Also, thank you, I now have to find the time to search out a VW TDI for my project..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan. 2019 at 3:12am
Welcome to the page, jps4jeep!
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jps4jeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 9:24pm
thank you.
John
54 CJ3b - project
95 YJ - crawler
18 chevy 2500hd - tow rig
13 suburban - wifes truck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2019 at 6:24pm
What a let down.  I saw this headline on Yahoo and expected to get an inside tour of Seth's jeep. Bummer, its only an amusement park ride Unhappy


1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Millennium falcon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2020 at 2:30am
It’s time to jump start this ancient thread! I’ve made a lot of changes since my last post.... instead of making separate threads I’ll just keep adding them to this one. I also started a YouTube channel to chronicle my exploits. Haha! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2020 at 12:27pm
Hey Seth!  After wheeling with you at at Southington I searched to see if you had a build thread but somehow missed it.  I just stumbled across it while researching spings! I'm wanting to take the day off so I can read it end to end!  (Fixin to order the stock Crowns by the way).  Thanks for your help!
-Barry
1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729
194? CJ2A 04893/194304
1946 CJ2A 46745
1946 CJ2A 36723
1945 MB   413665
1971 CJ5 8305017 375392 Drive train parts donor
Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cjtdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2020 at 6:55am
Hi Seth, beautiful Jeep. I am getting ready to swap a ALH motor into my CJ3A (has a Ford 302). Planning to mate it to a NP435/Dana300 combo. If you were to do it again, what would you do differently? Someone on a Zuki diesel forum linked your build thread and was wondering why did you push the motor so far back because looks like you had plenty of room in the front. Any other lessons that you could pass on to someone who’s considering this swap? Thanks. 

Edit: Right now, my Jeep is lifted to accommodate the tall Ford 302 motor and I totally hate how it sits so high. I want to bring it back to stock height with 30-31”x10.5 tires. Looks like yours is stock height too. Any hurdles clearing the diff or steering with the TDI motor? 


Edited by Cjtdi - 16 Sep. 2020 at 6:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2020 at 12:10pm
Thanks CJtdi.  So far I don’t really have that many regrets... the biggest change I would have made was to skip the t90 and go right to the t18 from the get go... the clutch I use limits how much power I can make but really my Jeep has more
Than enough power as is. I started with the t90 because I wantes to design a drop in kit for a stock willys. The plan was to reproduce and sell.  one other thing I would have done is Install kilmat on everything when the drivetrain was out. I did it after. It made a huge difference but was a pain to work around everything. I also never would have gone with the cat filter. The Vw one is what this engine likes. I’m the o lot issues I’ve had with this swap came from my original filter setup. Since i went back to the factory Vw fuel system I’ve had zero problems. I also went through a lot of trouble running shiny stainless steel hard lines.... but in the end just ran plain black rubber lines. I didn’t push the engine back at all. The reason is stirs where it does is because I left the drivetrain in the original spot. I wanted it to look completely stock from the inside. No new holes for the shifters. No custom driveshafts, clutch linkage etc... my goal was to make this as close to drop in as possible. The reason there is extra space is just the difference in engine size. it actually worked out really well because I needed that space to
Flip my alternator. My Jeep is really well balanced. (Same weight on front and rear axles) you could move it forward but in my case
That would have made a lot more work for me. I also have room to add power steering or air compressor some day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cjtdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct. 2020 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Millennium falcon Millennium falcon wrote:

Thanks CJtdi.  So far I don’t really have that many regrets... the biggest change I would have made was to skip the t90 and go right to the t18 from the get go... the clutch I use limits how much power I can make but really my Jeep has more
Than enough power as is. I started with the t90 because I wantes to design a drop in kit for a stock willys. The plan was to reproduce and sell.  one other thing I would have done is Install kilmat on everything when the drivetrain was out. I did it after. It made a huge difference but was a pain to work around everything. I also never would have gone with the cat filter. The Vw one is what this engine likes. I’m the o lot issues I’ve had with this swap came from my original filter setup. Since i went back to the factory Vw fuel system I’ve had zero problems. I also went through a lot of trouble running shiny stainless steel hard lines.... but in the end just ran plain black rubber lines. I didn’t push the engine back at all. The reason is stirs where it does is because I left the drivetrain in the original spot. I wanted it to look completely stock from the inside. No new holes for the shifters. No custom driveshafts, clutch linkage etc... my goal was to make this as close to drop in as possible. The reason there is extra space is just the difference in engine size. it actually worked out really well because I needed that space to
Flip my alternator. My Jeep is really well balanced. (Same weight on front and rear axles) you could move it forward but in my case
That would have made a lot more work for me. I also have room to add power steering or air compressor some day. 

Thanks, as far as the drivetrain goes, I am sort of in the same boat. I want to keep stock length and height. I want to keep the tranny street friendly (say 50mph @ 2000rpm) and a t-case that can go low for off-roading. I realize that the CJ2/3 wheelbase doesn't leave very many options in terms of tranny/tcase combos (I've looked at lots of combos from Borg-Warner/New Process to Suzuki Samurai/Sidekick). Looks like, with a diesel, you need overdrive which means either the old Dana 18 OD or a 5-speed gearbox. 

In my case, I am putting in Toyota axles with 4.88 gears and lockers. Without overdrive, I will be stuck at 38-45mph with either 31" or 33" tires. 

I think the shortest 5-speed combo would be from a Sidekick - at 36" from bell-housing to output shaft. You think the Sidekick/Tracker combo might be too long for the CJ? The stock CJ2/3 drivetrain is about 26" from bell-housing to rear output and the rear driveshaft is about 20". Even if I shorten my rear driveshaft a few inches, do you think there is room under the hood to get a few inches by moving the motor?

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct. 2020 at 10:49am
With 4.88’s you could get away without an overdrive. Even with my 5.38 gears I can go 50mph without using my overdrive. That’s the beauty of the tdi it can run the same rpm range as the l-head. You’re not really “stuck” at any speed as you mentioned. The tdi isn’t afraid of rpm That one advantage over the kubota or other low rpm diesels. Of course it’s happier and quieter at say 2000 rpm but it will gladly run at 3000+ all day long. When I travel in my alh tdi wagon I get on the interstate am she will sit at 2800-3000 for hours get 40+mpg with the air conditioning on. Haha! Yes, you could slide the engine forward a bit.  My driveshaft is only about 13.5” since my Jeep isn’t lifted it’s not a problem. So don’t be afraid to cut a little off the rear to accommodate you drivetrain. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cjtdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct. 2020 at 6:28am
Thanks for the encouragement 🙂 So, given a choice, what combo would you put in there?

Transmissions: NP435, T18, sidekick? 
Tcase: Dana 20, Dana 300, sidekick (married to the tranny)?

The Dana 300 adapters are thick, add about 3” to the length. The Dana 20 adapters are about an inch. On the flip side, Dana 20 aftermarket low gears are only 3.15 whereas Dana 300 goes to 4:1. I could also consider Atlas 2 in place of Dana 300 since it is the same adapter but not sure if I need the Atlas’ strength - I am not putting a V8 or looking to tune the TDI for massive torque/power (did that in a Golf I owned 😬). 

NP435/T18 start at 6.4/6.7 in first gear while the Sidekick starts at 3.7 or so and has an overdrive. The sidekick tcase goes down to 4.24:1 with aftermarket gears. 

I already collected two NP435, one Dana 300 and one Dana 20 - all with adapters. Picking up a T18 tomorrow for cheap that I will rebuild. But I am not married to any drivetrain yet. Only have the engine and axles sort of set in stone so far. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craig1017 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct. 2020 at 4:41pm
Why is it necessary to put the alternator out front?

Would it be possible to move the engine forward, and mate it to say a toyota, or AX15 transmission to gain a 5th gear?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cjtdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct. 2020 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Craig1017 Craig1017 wrote:

Why is it necessary to put the alternator out front?

Would it be possible to move the engine forward, and mate it to say a toyota, or AX15 transmission to gain a 5th gear?  

AX15 or Toyota (W56 or R150x) are too long. Consider this, the stock drivetrain is about 26” from bell housing to tcase rear output. The AX15 and Toyota trannies alone are about 24-26” long. So even if you shave a few inches from the rear driveshaft (about 20” stock length), you still need about 12-16” to include the bell housing and transfer case. If you are open to stretching the frame then obviously a whole different story. 

I will dump lengths of various transmissions and transfer cases that I gathered:

Drivetrain research


  • Dana 18: 8.5” long
  • Dana 20: 10.5” long
  • Dana 300: 11.625” long 


  • NP435: 10.8” long
  • NP435 to Dana 300 adapter: 3.2” long
  • T90: 9” 
  • T98: 11.87”
  • T18: 11.87” (better/newer than T98)
  • Samurai transmission: 19.5" bell-housing face to output shaft face
  • SM465: 12”
  • SM465 to Dana 20 adapter + SM465: 13”


  • CJ2A stock bell housing: 7-1/8”
  • Stock CJ3A rear driveshaft length: 19-7/16”


  • Stock CJ3A drivetrain length - BellHousing 7-1/8” + T90 9” + Dana 18 8.5” = ~25”
  • Original T90 plus bellhousing is 16.125" and the original Dana 18 is 10.5 from front mount surface to center of the rear u-joint. That is a total of 26.625”
  • NP435 + Adapter + Dana 300 + Bell-Housing = ~34”
  • Stock Tracker 4wd drive train tranny bell housing to rear output 36"
  • SM465 + Adapter + Dana 20 + Bellhousing = ~32”
  • T98/18 + Dana 20 + Bell-Housing: ~30”


My understanding is, the shortest drivetrain to fit a 5-speed gearbox is the Sidekick/Tracker tranny/tcase combo. One of the vendors also makes an adapter set to mate the VW TDI to Tracker tranny. No such adapter for NP435 or T18/98. The SM465 may have a readymade adapter since the bolt pattern is the same as T5, I think (could be wrong). 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct. 2020 at 8:08pm
Even if you move the engine forward a foot (which isn’t possible) it’s still too long... I’ve spent hours measuring and figuring and it’s just too darn long. Any of the 5 speeds will also require a center diff which raises the output compounding the short drive shaft problem even more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cjtdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct. 2020 at 10:46pm
Exchanged a few emails with TD Conversions based out of BC, Canada. They confirmed their GM/Chevy adapter kit will let the SM465 mate with the TDI motor. I am assuming if the SM465 will work then so will the SM420 (same bolt pattern but some differences in bearing retainer). And a local tranny guy who built me a NP435 before confirmed he has a good supply of SM420. I am getting excited now about the components finally fitting together, at least, on paper :D 

SM420: 10.4"
Dana 300: 11.625" (maybe I can find the rare short Dana 300)
Dana 300 adapter: 3.2"
Bell-Housing: 6.7"
Gives me about a little less than 32"

And stock drivetrain is just a little over 26". So on paper, looks like I need to find about 6" (that's what she said - sorry, couldn't resist Big smile )

Really eager to get this VW motor out of the shed and in the jeep :D 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cjtdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct. 2020 at 10:57pm
If anyone is curious, this is what it looks like now. Has a Ford 302 V8 that hangs too low, a Mustang toploader tranny, Dana 18 and Dana 25/44 combo. The steering was converted to rack/pinion style by the PO. Drives really well on the street but I have come to hate the lift and can't take it off-road.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct. 2020 at 11:19pm
You should probably start a build thread on this project. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct. 2020 at 12:40am
Please show us the rack and pinion setup, that should be interesting Smile
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
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