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Wheel Modifications

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jpet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wheel Modifications
    Posted: 12 Jan. 2018 at 5:33pm
Again, I have no plans to start running 900-16 NDTs. I just put these tires on to show myself and some others what 35" NDTs would look like. I also wanted some photos of it for another purpose. I will run 750-16 NDTS.

My 750-16 NDTs have a 6.2 wide tread and the recommended wheel width is 5.5' - 6.5' wide, i.e. 6". I'm not a tire expert, but it only makes sense that a 6" wide wheel/tire would have less side flex than a 5" wide wheel/tire simply by better weight displacement. Yes, lowering your aspect ratio would be more significant, but I still need ground clearance which is more important. I want to run the maximum tire diameter I can that still looks stock. That would be 750-16 NDT and 6" is the better wheel width.

We can crunch numbers to a point but I prefer the method of wheeling the tires and wheels to see what happens and make adjustments based on that.

Lee and I have had the conversation on whether or not 900-16 NDTs kick you out of the "Super Stock" class. My general rule of thumb applies to not only the tires but the entire jeep. If people ask you, "Is it stock?", you are still in the club. When they stop asking you, "What year is it?",... you have really crossed the line
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan. 2018 at 4:56pm
Bruce, 
Do you wheel that on a regular basis ? Ha Ha Ha !

Hey Jeff...
I think you brought up a real good point the other day by showing us "too much tire" for the Jeep.
At some point these lightweight jeeps become truly disadvantaged by use of larger tires.
Whenever the tire gets too tall, too wide or too stiff the tread can no longer flex-form for full contact patch regardless of PSI.
7.50 x 16" at 32" diameter seems to be very near the limit for LRV size jeeps if you expect the tire to flex well at low PSI.
Obviously ply rating and compound density will effect the end results.

Concerning minimum PSI I expect pressures below 6 PSI will become problematic whenever tubes are installed. 
Any bead slippage will certainly destroy  tire tube at low PSI.

If I'm not mistaken your original quest was to control side roll at low PSI right ?
I believe that's referred  to as tire deflection.

Most all bias ply tires have a section width near 100% aspect ratio. 
So NDT's are all going to be very near to 100% aspect ratio.
Obviously a tire with lower aspect ratio should have less sidewall deflection.

It was determined years ago that the most practical section with is near the current 75% aspect ratio.
I believe that determination was about the time when the old school 78 series tires came to be.
Of course the original aspect ratio determinations were more about tire deflection during high speed cornering maneuvers.
Very few if any Jeeps are driven fast while cornering so we often opt for taller aspect ratios.
But still it holds true that a lower aspect ratio is key to preventing excess sidewall roll/ deflection at low tire PSI.
I would guess having the correct rim width to be a secondary concern toward preventing excess deflection.

So I don't think you'll get totally away from tire roll unless you somehow opt for tires having a lower aspect ratio.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan. 2018 at 1:43pm
Bruce, I think you should move that rear axle back some. You will likely see better off-road performance with the longer wheelbase and better weight distribution. Front axle could go forward some too. HTH!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan. 2018 at 6:44am
That was kinda my first impression, too.LOL  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan. 2018 at 2:12am
Tires that big do make Bam Bam look kinda... toylike.  I'd recommend you get an M-715 for the tires.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berettajeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:










This reminds me of Sarge from the Pixar movie Cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 5:13pm
From a thumb nail test between the Speedway and a Goodyear that I have for a spare I would say the speedway is softer. Hope this helps a little and I enjoy watching you do the fine machine work Jeff.

   Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 5:04pm
Jim, would you say the rubber in the tread is softer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 4:54pm
I put a set of 600 X 16s on my 47 and have a couple thousand miles on them now and have had no trouble with them. The ones I received were 8 ply rating instead of the 6 ply that was in the add so mine is a little stiff. I would have liked to have 4 ply for these old bones but for the cost of them I am not going to complain, I don't even notice the logo on them.

   Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 4:31pm
These are 8 ply which is the minimum STA or any other manufacturer I know of offers in a 900-16 NDT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 4:25pm
Excellent  stuff Jeff,

We all get to see what 9.00 x 16 NDT's look like on a small jeep.
Just my opinion but....They definitely give your jeep a high flotation look. 
I don't like the look as they seem too fat.

Yes these tires in new condition run up to 35" tall so rubbing is definitely going to happen unless modified. 
Your 6" rim width is minimal for this size tire.

Tire Flex your suggesting is pathetic.
What ply rating are these tires ?
IMHO 6 ply is certainly optimum for an LRV / Universal Jeep.
4 Ply rating is good but sets you up for possible sidewall punctures while 8 ply does not wanna flex on a light weight rig.

It would be great experience to try crawling on them but you'd have to cut your pristine fender wells just to try it out.

Bottom line..... Too Stiff, too tall  and the way cool narrow / skinny look goes away.

Rick G.... Personally I  think your NSS tires are much much better.
They definitely push the limits for diameter, fit, performance and the skinny look for old Jeeps


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Rick G Rick G wrote:

...I’d like to see you wheel them a little just to see how much they rub.  Or at least forklift ‘em. ....
I'm not even sure I could drive them on the road without rubbing. There is no doubt in my mind that they would rub significantly without some (slight) changes to the quarter panel. My rear axle with spacers is 2" wider than stock. I considered driving them to work this morning but it is raining here and suppose to start freezing.

I don't think these tires would wheel so good without some cuts and sipes and very low air pressure. Even at that, with the stiff sidewalls, will they squat or just roll? After seeing the problems Rick G is having getting his swampers to squat, it makes me wonder what it would take to get any tall skinny tire to squat. Obviously, they have to have a strong side wall to support their large diameter, but they have no width to keep them from rolling.

I wonder if anyone here has real experience with the Speedway tires, particularly, 750-16 and 900-16 NDT. I've read up on them here and on the g503. Most of the people who have them like them. Most of the negative comments are from people who have never owned them. They see that they are made in India and that is all they need to know. I'm interested because, the reports I read are that they are softer than STAs and that they don't last as long ...... you mean like a "sticky"? If these tires have a lower durometer than STA's, they may be perfect for my application. I just wish they didn't have that big gaudy Speedway logo on them.

.... Can anyone who owns a set, comment?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 7:25am
sure gave Bam Bam that “beefy” look.  I’d like to see you wheel them a little just to see how much they rub.  Or at least forklift ‘em.  I seriously considered buying some of these before I got the TSLs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 3:44am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:



..... slippery slope huh roc.



Uh huh......but it's all a compromise. (ask Bob)




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 3:42am
I'm not surprised by your comments, they work good on my M715, but it weighs nearly 6K, a very stiff tire indeed!.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil_IA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 3:03am
Great job again Jeff! They look original..only more manly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 2:58am
These tires have a very square bead that doesn’t fit the wheel right as you may be able to see on the pics. This means a person would likely have to use tubes. IMO, these tires would have to be aired down to at least 4 lbs to have any useable squat.   I’m not sure a tube would work very good at 4 psi. Does anyone have experience on that? If not, you would need a beadlock. In that case, you could weld your bead lock to a stock KH wheel and then you would have your 6” width since the tire bead would be on the outside of the rim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2018 at 2:12am
I was all excited about that possibility Jeff but honestly I don't really love it like I thought I would.

Wheels look good !


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