11" Brake Upgrade - Tips and Lessons Learned? |
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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I made good progress tonight - got the hub and drum separated. I drilled out the swage on the studs using a milling machine set slow, 150 rpm spindle speed and used plenty of sulphur cutting oil. It worked just fine. But I didn't know how deep to cut them, I never saw a specific depth mentioned in my research. After a little trial and error I settled on a cutting depth of .070". I had one bent stud that the hole saw wouldn't slip over, so I cut that one off short, then cut the swage. Then over to the 20 ton press. I set it up on three deep impact sockets with the stud being pressed out centered on one of them. They pushed right out with no damage to the splines.
I measured the splines on the pushed out studs - the were .622" - .625". On advice I found here I previously ordered new Dorman 610-032 studs. I'm a little concerned because the splines on these measure .635" -.640". Maybe they are intended for hogged out holes. Oddly, in the box of 10 Dorman studs was one Omix Ada stud (I think it is, it has a A with a smile across it on the head). That one measures .623", just like the originals. So are these oversize studs safe to press in or should I call Walcks and order OA studs? |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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I couldn't find a whole lot of things for my first Jeep, but I was able to find a spindle nut wrench in '73. I couldn't even find a manual for an M-38. |
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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I'm going to look closer at the stud splines and holes tonight. I need to measure the holes and see how they compare to the minor diameter of the splines on the new studs. I know that a tight fit is necessary, but I don't want to damage the hub pressing them in if in fact they are too big.
I'm sure I'm not the first one to come across this issue - what is your experience here? Thanks, Steve |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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Lots of lug stud info here may need to download in PDF.
Here's what I did; Edited by jeeper50 - 04 Apr. 2018 at 3:36pm |
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Thanks, good info. I find it odd that the Dorman spec sheet for 610-032 lists knurl diameter as .618", yet the ones I have are around .635" - .640". I will measure them again and check the holes.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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I measured the holes and studs again, they came up .007" - .010" difference. But it's hard to measure the depths of the knurls. But I decided to try them and it turned out fine. There were a tight fit in the hub, but we're no match for the 20 ton press. After that I torqued the king pin cap, installed the new brake plate and torqued it in place. So more good progress.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Just a little more progress today. Packed and installed the wheel bearings, installed the inner hub seal, then installed the hub on the spindle. Slipped the drum on and adjusted the shoes. Lastly, filled the knuckle with corn head grease.
Going out of town tomorrow morning for the weekend. So will get back to work next week.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Wrongway
Member Joined: 18 Aug. 2015 Location: Rapid City, SD Status: Offline Points: 77 |
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[QUOTE=ndnchf]Great information guys, keep it coming, and embedded photos that won't be lost in time.
I've been looking closely at the 11" self adjusting upgrade kits from Herm, Woodys4x4 and The Jeep Guy. None of their web sites have the detailed information I'd like to know. Each kit is similar, but they don't all contain the same parts. I'll probably have to call each one to get clear answers. Here are my lingering questions: -Wheel cylinders, angled or straight port, what thread? -S or Z lines used or just rubber hoses? -what model and year are they from? -does the hub go inside or outside of the drum? -what length new studs should be used for stick wheels? -are detailed instructions included with the kit? I'm leaning towards the kit from Woodys 4x4 because it seems to be the most complete. Has anyone used this kit? Thanks Steve Woody's just shipped my set of four today. I can say they were great to work with! Will post info when I receive them and as I'm installing Edited by Wrongway - 06 Apr. 2018 at 2:12am |
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49 CJ3A - Dauntless V6 -Sold
56 Wagon Buick V6 -Sold 49 CJ3A Custom Rock Crawler -Sold 58 FC170 350 Chev,snow plow -Sold 48 CJ2A 206401 Original and keeping it that way !!! Current |
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Thats great Wrongway. Please post your progress, pics and lessons learned here so others can benefit.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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67charger
Member Joined: 27 Sep. 2011 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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this is just me but if you have to put the drum before the hub it's a waste especially on the dana 41 rear. It's so nice being able to pull a drum or disc without taking the hub off.
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3190 |
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If you are installing the later model self adjusting 11" brake setup, the drum would go to the outside of the hub.
However, if you are installing the 1946-64 Jeep truck 11" brake set up the drum goes inside the hub. This setup is non-self adjusting. Ol' Red now has the 11" 46-64 brakes front and rear and for the first time in the 49 years I have owned her I feel like I can actually stop in a reasonable, safe distance. The 2-point adjustment on the setup is really easy to adjust, much more so than the 4-point 9" original brakes. I kept the OEM 9" brake parts, but I don't see them ever being installed on the old girl again. |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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I finished up the 11" upgrade on the left front wheel tonight. That is except for the Dualmatic hub gaskets and locking tab washers that someone forgot to order last week. So the hub is just on temporarily. Since this is all new to me I'm doing it one wheel at a time. I learned a lot doing (and redoing a few things) on this wheel. The right side should go a little easier. I started tearing down the right side tonight. But I'm beat, so that's all for tonight.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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I won't bore you with all the details, but since it was 77 degrees today, I left work a little early to work on the right front brakes.
Last night I cleaned most of the parts, chased threads and generally got a lot of the dirty and prep work done. So this afternoon first off I put the drum/hub on the mill and cut the swage off the studs. Then pressed the old ones out, cleaned the hub and pressed in the new studs. Then packed the bearings, installed the seal and bolted everything up. Connected the brake line and adjusted the shoes. Tomorrow I'll pump corn head greaseinto the knuckle and start cleaning up the Dualmatic hubs, while waiting for their gaskets to arrive. Time for a cold one! |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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For future reference to help others down the road, here are before and after photos for cutting the swaged ring off the studs. I cut them about .070" deep.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3190 |
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X2...or X3...or 4! Nice progress on your brakes. |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Man, that corn head grease is a goopy mess to get into the knuckle. I read about different ways to do it and ended up using this big syringe thing. It's an oil sucker from Harbor Freight, normally used to suck out old oil and fluids. I cleaned it out, then spoon filled it with the CH grease, then slowly squirted it into the knuckle. It's kind of thick to go through the syringe, but it worked. That is until the hose popped off the end and grease squirted all over. Only then did I think about adding the hose clamp to the tube.
It's all done now and mess cleaned up. I don't want to do that again any time soon! |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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I'll just say that cartridge probably would have fit right in the suction gun just like in a grease gun. But a spoon works too!
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Ì had hoped it would, but not quite. The tube is just a little too big. So the spoon was plan B.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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