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Death Wobble - choices |
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Bill2A 
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Joined: 01 Mar. 2018 Location: Fort Worth, Tex Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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 Topic: Death Wobble - choicesPosted: 20 July 2018 at 1:53am |
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I had heard of a steering brace.
Now, I've seen one. I like it. Might like it better attatched to the cross member.
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1946 CJ2A 14098
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 19 July 2018 at 4:24am |
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Here's that steering brace. I'm not keen on attaching it to the bolt that ties into the bottom of the radiator, though. Next time the grill is off, I'm going to drill a hole through the crossmember and weld in a grade 8 decapitated bolt.  Yes, I popped the zerk off the bellcrank. It's getting replaced this weekend. If there's no clearance for one in the usual location, I'll drill and tap the other side. For those paying extra close attention, yes. My fan sticks down well below the radiator. I'm finishing up a fan shroud for it. Yep that the lower radiator hose below and behind the balancer.
 Edited by LesBerg - 19 July 2018 at 4:26am |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 10:43pm |
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Stev is spot on. Every bushing, bearing, ball joint, nut and bolt between the frame and the tire needs to be tight, serviceable, and properly lubricated for the steering to be right.
Pictures to come... |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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Stev
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 9:48pm |
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Death Wobble -
Lots of good ideas in this thread. What I have done to check the front end is to put the front of the Jeep up on Jack stands so that the jack stands are supporting the frame - while letting the front springs sag down so the front tires are still off of the ground. Then take each of the wheels and give them a three axis shake (up down, side to side front and front to back) to see if something is lose or just shot after 70 years. Also have an assistant turn the steering wheel (rock it) back and forth while you look for play. You might find that: - the spring bushings are shot - spring perches are loose or perhaps one is - the king pin races mounting surface in the DANA 25 are stretched - the king pin bearings are shot - there is a spindle that is not bolted up tight -and so on. Edited by Stev - 13 July 2018 at 3:26am |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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bigdaddy13
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 9:21pm |
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Got it. thanks for the perspective. |
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bigdaddy13
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 9:17pm |
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My dad, who is an excellent mechanic, used a couple guides (Moses ludel) and one other to check his method and torque figures while repacking and preloading them. Pretty confident, having seen them myself, that I can exclude those for now. Thanks for the info on the kingpin bearings, I'll do that check next. |
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DonH
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 8:20pm |
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On my jeep the wobble was was caused by not having the specified pre-load on the knuckle which is a lot tighter than you would think. Use new shims and a scale to set the pre-load to specs, expect to remove the caps several times until you get the right shim combination. Make sure to toe is set correctly and the wheels are balanced. With regard to wandering we have to lower our expectations. One inch of free play at the steering wheel is remarkably tight. Back in the day state inspections allowed for several inches depending on the diameter of the steering wheel. The bell crank shaft must be tight in its socket and the bell crank must be tight on the shaft requiring force to move it. The steering linkage ball joints should be tight and the steering gear box should be adjusted with the steering wheel straight. The drag link ends should be tight enough to have no free play but not so tight as to not move easily. Having done that you will have to pay more attention to steering than we are used to. DonH
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1946CJ2A
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athawk11
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Joined: 18 Jan. 2012 Location: Arvada,Colorado Status: Offline Points: 4151 |
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 8:17pm |
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This isn’t fool proof, but you can jack a wheel off the ground, then pull/push on the top, then bottom of the wheel/tire. If you have any significant in and out movement, you’ll want to remove the king pin and inspect the bearings more closely. The only other thing that would cause movement when pulling/pushing on the wheel like this would be the actual wheel bearing. If the preload isn’t set right, or the wheel bearings are shot, you may feel some looseness, but you’ll be able to feel/see this difference inside the hub if you remove your drive flanges or locking hubs, if so equipped. |
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1- 1946 CJ2A
2- 1949 CJ3A |
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cal.bar
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 7:54pm |
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Bell crank drag link and steering rod slop will not usually cause death wobble. As others have posted before it's almost certainly inside your axles
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bigdaddy13
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 7:05pm |
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On closer inspection here's what I've found so far(only spent an hour or so, poking around last night after work)
1. Bell crank castle nut was only finger tight and there was a roofing nail pinning it in...lol. So I tightened it and put a fresh cotter pin in. 2. Drag link/connecting rod from gear box to bell crank actually is only allowing a small amount of movement. I'm actually seeing a bit of wiggle from the gearbox arm, which might mean, what? Sector shaft is worn/loose? going to clean some grime away and take a closer look. 3. I still need to dig into the kingpin bearings, but I reconfirmed that the tie rod ends seem fairly healthy/snug. |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 6:28pm |
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My experience in working on death wobble problems is that most of the time the king pin bearings are worn out. Just removing shims from the bearing caps does little good if the bearings are worn or brinelled. The closed knuckle design of the Dana 25 contributes to the problem. especially if the front axle has been submerged in water or mud and the knuckle seal is worn. Once a bearing begins to rust from exposure to water or mud it is just a matter of time until wears accelerates and causes preload problems on a close tolerance design. The lack of preload on the kingpin bearings in my opinion is a major factor (but not the only factor) in the death wobble scenario.
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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cal.bar
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Posted: 12 July 2018 at 3:09am |
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Never mind the brace, got any pics of the WIFE! (a woman who can fix her own car is truly a unicorn)
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smfulle
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Posted: 11 July 2018 at 9:52pm |
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Got any pics of this brace?
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LesBerg
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Posted: 11 July 2018 at 8:39pm |
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I was diagnosing wandering at highway speeds and couldn't figure it out.
My wife is an amateur mechanic (maybe not amateur, she can do drum brakes without help) and I brought her out for a fresh set of eyes. She noticed that the bellcrank was moving even after replacing the bearings. It turned out that the pivot shaft was deflecting under load. I built a tube brace for it and it's pretty solid now. The brace mounts under the right side radiator bolt and just under the bellcrank nut. |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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bigdaddy13
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Posted: 11 July 2018 at 5:07pm |
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 wow!
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athawk11
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Posted: 11 July 2018 at 3:19pm |
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King Pin bearings in the knuckle are often neglected, but fairly easy to replace. Don't be surprised to find them in poor condition...
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1- 1946 CJ2A
2- 1949 CJ3A |
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bigdaddy13
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Posted: 11 July 2018 at 3:16pm |
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Thx for the suggestion, my dad and i serviced the wheel bearings when i installed my disc brakes, but you’re right, i dont think we assessed the king pin bearings (i’m assuming that is what was meant by trunnion bearings?)
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bigdaddy13
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Posted: 11 July 2018 at 3:09pm |
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Yup, thanks...this is exactly where i started. Seeing slop from the bell crank on the connecting rod end, and at the steering gear arm. Also feeling at least an inch or so of slop in the steering wheel before i see wheel movement, but i can honestly feel/see the steering gear arm move in unison, so it makes me think the gear box is fairly healthy. |
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cal.bar wrote: