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My first post and intro. |
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CJ2A-NOOB 
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Joined: 11 Oct. 2018 Location: So Cal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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 Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 4:24pm |
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it is quite possible that whoever it was who put in the alternator, wired it in wrong.
I think I may try disconnecting the alternator, swapping the battery cables, and see if the engine cranks backwards. If it DOES NOT crank backwards, ... Then I will start it up, (with the alternator still disconnected), and do a voltage check from the single wire hot lead to ground. This should tell me if the alternator is a negative ground. Your thoughts ?
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Cheers
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ndnchf
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Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 4:28pm |
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Just a thought. It might be prudent to take the alternator to an auto parts store or alternator shop to be tested. Let them figure what it is rather than risk damaging something on your jeep.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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jeeper50
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Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 5:30pm |
X2 maybe bubba just bought the black cables cause that is all they had in the size he wanted
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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cpt logger
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Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3040 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 9:06pm |
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In these pre-electronic rigs only the battery, the regulator, & the
alternator/generator care whether the rig is positive or negative
ground. All other systems will work with either battery orientation. Look at the regulator, if there is a data plate of any kind, it
should tell you if it is positive ground. If it does not state positive
ground, it is 99.99 % sure to be negative ground. If there is no data plate, all bets are off. OK, now test the charging system. Be sure to run the engine about 1500 RPM otherwise the alternator may not be turning fast enough to charge. I know an alternator will charge at a much lower RPM than a generator will, but lets just be sure that a low RPM is not causing a perceived problem where there is none. IMHO, If it charges the battery everything is OK. If it does not charge the battery, try swapping the cables at the battery. If it still does not charge, my guess is someone put the cables on the battery wrong, & fried the diodes. Now is the time to take this to an alternator shop for testing & repair. Note: I did not say Auto Zone! If this were my rig, I would determine which cable should go to the positive terminal on the battery, & replace it with a red one. I would do this just to avoid confusion in the future. It could save you some money & hassle buying diodes often. IHTH, Cpt Logger. PS. If the alternator is a one wire one, I would guess that the alternator is 12 volt, negative ground. I have heard of a 6 volt, one wire, positive ground alternator, but they are very, very, rare. Edited to add the PS.
Edited by cpt logger - 17 Oct. 2018 at 9:14pm |
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rocnroll
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Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Tuscumbia, AL Status: Offline Points: 13584 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 9:15pm |
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Wouldn't the alternator wire be connected to the same (+ or -) that the starter is pulling power from?
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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CJ2A-NOOB
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Joined: 11 Oct. 2018 Location: So Cal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 9:34pm |
Thanks 48willys, ok, so how about if I go at it in this sequence... We know the jeep starts and runs with the positive battery terminal attached to the cable that is mounted to the engine block, and the negative battery terminal going to the solenoid. (And just for clarity), At this point, I am not completely convinced, that this is NOT a 12v alternator. So since the engine WILL Start and Run in the current configuration, (bear in mind that the gentleman who this jeep was purchased from, DID DRIVE IT LIKE THIS, around the neighborhood, used it in local parades and events, etc. So now I'm thinking, "Why not go ahead and start it up, and check the alternator output with my multi-meter ?" This should at least tell me if the alternator is putting out 6v vs 12v. ... (is this correct) ? This should also tell me if the alternator is set up as a "reverse ground", ... (is this correct) ? (positive lead from multi-meter to alternator output terminal, negative lead from multi-meter to alternator body (?) (I assume ?), And then see if the multi-meter reads in a positive or negative voltage/polarity. (would this be correct ?) Now as far as checking if in fact "Bubba" had just hooked it up backwards,... ( and if AFTER the above test was performed), ... I simply disconnect the hot lead coming from the alternator post, (for the purpose of isolating the alternator),... Would there then be any harm in pulling the coil wire from the coil, (to prevent the engine from firing), .. THEN, connecting the POSITIVE Battery Terminal to the SOLENOID,(mounted on the fender well in the pics) And the NEGATIVE Battery Terminal to the engine block ? (This would be to Verify that the Starter does still turn in the proper direction). Would this be a "Proper" and SAFE way for me to test it ? I do realize that it would be better to remove the alternator and take it to a local rebuilder to have him test it, but I'm not sure when I can make it over to the shop due to my limited time I have to tinker on the jeep. I am plenty capable of doing my own "Wrenching", and I have plenty of experience working on my own cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, etc., Yeah, I'm basically an "Old Gear-Head" too. (and I'm sure like many members here), I've got all the scars on my knuckles to prove it, LOL ! My main reluctance with this is, I'm not experienced with "Positive Grounded" vehicles, and it seems from some of the replies here, that this should NOT be a "Positive Grounded" vehicle. Everyone Ive talked to says "CJ2A's are Negative Grounded. Anyway, just looking for info and advice, from you all here, who are more familiar with these old jeeps than I am. So do the above tests that I have asked for your opinions make sense ? Thanks for all your replies so far and in the future, Cheers, "CJ Noob"  |
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Cheers
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cpt logger
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Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3040 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 9:47pm |
Wait, what? Good catch! The red wire from the alternator is going to the battery cable that is connected to ground? If so, I guarantee that that charging system is inoperative, as the alternator is shorted out. The case of the alternator acts as its other terminal, which goes to ground. So if the red wire is indeed going to ground as well, the alternator is not charging. Heck, try this, remove the red wire from the battery ground cable & install it on the other cable. This should make the charging system work. The diodes should be fine as they have not yet been hooked up backwards, we hope. Before hooking up the battery, determine whether the alternator is negative ground, most likely, or positive ground, least likely. Any good alternator shop could do a simple test to determine this. Then hook the battery up appropriately. If there is a data plate on the alternator with a part number, the grounding orientation & voltage could be determined through a google search. Again, IHTH. Cpt Logger. |
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CJ2A-NOOB
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Joined: 11 Oct. 2018 Location: So Cal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 10:08pm |
Thanks Cpt. ! I was typing my question while you had already made the above reply. I will go check as you have recommended and report back. You guys are GREAT ! (you all kind of remind me of the membership on the forum of my "other hobby"). Sharing all information and experiences freely. I think that is GREAT !
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Cheers
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rocnroll
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 10:14pm |
Yes, that's what I was trying to say on the previous page ......I thought it might have gotten lost changing pages on the thread. That's sure what the pictures look like to me. |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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mbullism
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Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4778 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 10:14pm |
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come for the info, stay for the pie
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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CJ2A-NOOB
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Joined: 11 Oct. 2018 Location: So Cal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: 17 Oct. 2018 at 10:30pm |
Hahahaha, I Love it ! In my other "hobby", (Errr,.. Translation,... OBSESSION !) We say, "Come to the Darkside,... We have Cookies".
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Cheers
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CJ2A-NOOB
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Joined: 11 Oct. 2018 Location: So Cal Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 12:50am |
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OK, so here's where I'm at now. I disconnected the hot lead of the alternator from the battery cable. I disconnected the coil wire. I swapped the battery cables to be a NEGATIVE ground. I tested the direction of starter spin with a NEGATIVE Ground, (and confirmed the starter still turns in the correct direction) I reconnected the coil wire and started the engine. Now intheNEGATIVE Groundconfiguration. (btw, ...this engine purrs like a sewing machine). With the engine running, I tested the alternator output voltage, using my multi-meter,. The positive alternator output post, to the body/casing of the alternator, ... as well as various negative ground spots on the engine. Still NO voltage readings. So the Results are,... ZERO output. (Bummer  ) I have to assume the alternator didn't like being connected in a DIRECT SHORT manner ! (Well Imagine THAT ! Ehh ?) OK so the alternator is most likely toasted, and I have removed it, and will take it to the local automotive electrical rebuilder tomorrow (if possible). Now here's the goofy part,... This alternator IS MARKED AS "6v Positive Ground" WHICH MEANS,... ....Either the guy who put this alternator in was even more messed up than I thought,... OR,... this Jeep is supposed to be a "Positive Ground". GRRRRR ! So I gues my next question is, Has ANYONE here, EVER SEEN or HEARD of, a 1947 Willy's CJ2A being a POSITIVE Grounded vehicle ? Here's a few more pics...  next question, I'm ASSUMING that whoever did this "alternator conversion",... removed the voltage regulator. Here is why I assume this...  Aren't those 3 holes on the passenger side fender well, the factory spot where the regulator was/should have been mounted ? Here's a pic of some numbers on the bottom of the solenoid/relay (?), on the passenger side fender,  And last question (for now), as I get on the road for a 1 1/2 hour drive home, The Water Temp Sensor is broken off of the head. Can anyone here direct me to where to get a proper replacement ?  As always, THANK YOU for your time and patience helping out this noob. Cheers! Edited by CJ2A-NOOB - 18 Oct. 2018 at 7:41am |
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Cheers
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rocnroll
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 1:24am |
.........NO......... |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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Ol' Unreliable
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Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 3:00am |
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So the alternator was previously hooked up correctly for its marking of 6V pos ground? Put it back the way it was and see if it works. Presumably the Jeep has a 6V battery so you know the voltage it needs. Maybe the guy who put the alternator in just got a great deal on it and used it as-is so as not to spend any more money...
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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athawk11
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Joined: 18 Jan. 2012 Location: Arvada,Colorado Status: Offline Points: 4151 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 3:31am |
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The broken temp sensor forces most of us to purchase a new temperature gauge assembly.
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1- 1946 CJ2A
2- 1949 CJ3A |
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Steelyard Blues
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Joined: 09 Oct. 2017 Location: Reno, NV Status: Offline Points: 1497 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 3:38am |
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Noob (real name?),
I would suggest going to the local AutoZone and getting a similar rebuilt alternator for about $40. Usually has a lifetime warrantee. You have to do a little wiring but not much. If you get the same case as you have, the 1 & 2 marks on that case would be where you would wire one from the ignition and one back to the hot side. They sell a plug that fits in there for just a couple bucks. As far as the temp gauge, you are going to have to replace the entire gauge. Kaiser Willys has them. Make sure you can get the sender out of the adaptor or you will have to purchase the block adaptor too. KW is a bit expensive on this and you might want to check locally first. If they don't have a sale on, use the discount code OLDWILLYS10. It usually works for me. Micah UPDATE: I was able to find the alternator I used. $50 Edited by Steelyard Blues - 18 Oct. 2018 at 4:03am |
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1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981 1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577 |
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48willys
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Joined: 22 June 2007 Location: sw/ virginia Status: Offline Points: 1340 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 3:49am |
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You would be correct, the original generator had a external regulator that was on the fender. The alternator looks like a converted 10si with a internal regulator.
There's alot of bad information out there, the previous owner may have got a 6v POS ground unit off the internet thinking it was the right one. If it really was charging that way it would be surprising. I think I see what they were trying to do to make it work but all they did was short it to itself,it shouldn't be able to energize the way it's wired. |
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1946 cj2a #28680
1948 chevy 3800 thriftmaster 1946-50's cj2a-3a farm jeep 1993 yj, aka the yj7 |
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Bruce W
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Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9649 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 5:00am |
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"Has ANYONE here,
EVER SEEN or HEARD of, a 1947 Willy's CJ2A being a POSITIVE Grounded vehicle ?" Yeah. Several times. But it was not intended or originally built that way. Six-volt Fords and some others were positive ground, and some folks seem to think that anything 6-volt should be positive ground, because that's what they've seen before. So when they get ahold of an old jeep or Chevy or Plymouth or whatever with no battery in it, that's the way they hook it up. There are people in other areas of the old-car world, such as the Model-A guys and tractor guys, that think like many here do, that they HAVE to have an alternator, the generator just won't do, but they want to stay "as original as possible" and keep the 6-volt system. The 6-volt positive-ground alternator is made for them. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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ndnchf wrote: