rear output yoke problem on Tcase |
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CJbuilder
Member Joined: 12 July 2017 Location: Ft Collins Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Posted: 19 Nov. 2018 at 2:31am |
We're putting the tranny and Tcase into the frame of our 47 CJ2. I've torqued the main shaft nut onto the main shaft of the tranny so the tranny and Tcase are mated together. I also torqued the front output nut on the output shaft of the Tcase and now I'm trying to torque the rear output nut which includes the emergency brake assembly. The shoes are adjusted so the brake drum turns but as I torque down the nut, the brake drum locks up tight before I get 50 ft lbs on the yoke nut. If I remove the brake drum, I can slide just the yoke over the output shaft and it seats nicely. But when I attach the yoke to the brake drum and tighten the nut on the yoke/drum, no go. Any suggestions?
Ron |
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outlw21
Member Joined: 06 Aug. 2017 Location: bakersfield CA Status: Offline Points: 240 |
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Maybe the hex on the 4 special bolt are not seated in the recess in the drum?
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CJbuilder
Member Joined: 12 July 2017 Location: Ft Collins Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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I've been really paying attention to keeping the hex heads in that recess. I even put on the 4 washers and nuts finger tight to keep the yoke from popping out of the brake drum when I was pushing the yoke onto the splines. Tried it again today moving the Tcase in/out of gears, hi and low but still binds up. The drums spins freely so I'm not hanging up on the brake pads which are new (KW). I've looked at several pics of proper installation of shoes, springs, etc and I'm sure it's correct. But as I tighten the lock nut onto the splined output shaft, it's pulling down the yoke and drum until it binds up. I took the darn assembly apart 6 months ago so I'm really baffled.
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Ron
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cal.bar
Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2016 Location: So. Cal. Status: Offline Points: 767 |
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Are you sure the shoes are the right size for the drum. If everything else was the same and was previously working, and you only replaced the shoes, it's a logical place to start.
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CJbuilder
Member Joined: 12 July 2017 Location: Ft Collins Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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The old shoes were grease soaked so I replaced them with e-brake shoes from Kaiser Willys. Should be the same but KW has made mistakes before. I notice that when the drum is bound up, there's at least 1/4" spacing from the edge of the shoes to the edge of the drum. Just now I took the yoke by itself and slid it on the splined output shaft and put the nut and washer on. I tightened up the nut and the yoke quickly was drawn down onto the grease seal around the splined shaft. Tight!! The nut still had 2-3 more threads to go before the cotter pin holes were accessible. This tells me it's the yoke, not the drum. Doesn't make sense as the front yoke went on perfectly and at 130 ft-lbs of torque, the yoke turned OK.
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Ron
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athawk11
Member Joined: 18 Jan. 2012 Location: Arvada,Colorado Status: Offline Points: 4151 |
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Is the yoke new?
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1- 1946 CJ2A
2- 1949 CJ3A |
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6141 |
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Been a while since I messed with this, but I seem to recall the seal needs to be recessed below the edge of the housing or it interferes with the yoke.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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Is speedometer drive gear in position under the rear bearing cap ?
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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tamnalan
Member Joined: 08 Oct. 2013 Location: Port Orford, OR Status: Offline Points: 989 |
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A new yoke that is shorter or longer than the old one can cause fit issues (aka "fissues")
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Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD" 1943 MB - "Lt Bob" 1950 cj3a M-100 x2 teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740 |
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lowenuf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 29 Aug. 2006 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 9122 |
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are you torquing to correct specs? The three nuts you mention should be castle nuts with cotter pins, and usually do not require much torque.
The yolk retainer at the brake drum should not be torqued down or you will bottom out the heads of the 4 yolk bolts against the drum backing plate... the drum should remain loose by 3/32" so that when you install the driveshaft the drum has room to move rearward... i just went through all of this reinstalling my column shift tranny back into the '45, and followed the maintenance manual page for page..... shoot us some pics of the brake set-up Edited by lowenuf - 20 Nov. 2018 at 2:31am |
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45 #10012
45 #10033 ACM #47 45 #10163 ACM #188 57 CJ5 Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick |
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Jeff_Davis
Member Joined: 15 July 2012 Location: Argentina & FL Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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I had a similar problem with a transfer case that I had just had rebuilt by a local manual transmission shop. They said they had done "a million of these" transfer cases before.... they didn't want the copy of the Service Manual pages I had made to leave with them.
I must have put and take the e-brake drum and new yoke 5 times, all with the complete binding of the drum once I tightened everything to spec. I even replaced the e-brake drum thinking it was out-of-round. It worked fine with the pre-rebuild t-case... Turns out the shop had replaced some internal gears, and didn't bother to check the preload clearances. I re-shimmed the rear bearing cup per the Service Manual specs, and it was happy ever after. The shim kits are available thru all the normal channels They had also used RTV sealant on everything (after I supplied them with a rebuild gasket kit, which they handed back to me with the t-case) and that became another spacing variation I eliminated. Shoudda, couldda, just done it myself after all the headaches and added problem chasing. Became the inspiration for me to try rebuilding my T-90. Came out great. All you need to do is follow the service manual and keep the forum close! Jeff
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Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina 1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida) 1954 M-100 USMC Trailer 1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block |
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CJbuilder
Member Joined: 12 July 2017 Location: Ft Collins Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Thanks for the replies, guys. I'll reply to the questions in order.
I did buy a replacement yoke from KW because the original had slight wear on the neck. However, I've been trying both yokes to cure the problem but no go so I think they are equivalent. Looking at the photo of the 2 yokes, the only difference is the angle of taper above the spline section which shouldn't make any difference. The speedo gear is where it should be. The oil seal is set 1/8" into the shaft housing and it's down solid. I noted the internal diameter of the shaft housing is 2.5" and the skirt that holds the felt ring is slightly less, maybe 0.010", so the skirt (on both yokes) is definitely bottoming out inside the housing and on top of the oil seal. I also shot a pic of the brake assembly. I'm using castle nuts (front and rear) on the yokes and I believe the torque is about 130 ft-lbs on the front yoke which I did easily and the yoke is just fine. I have noticed when I start to mount the drum/hub, the drum is standing off a bit until I start to tighten the nut. I have not seen any torque numbers for the rear yoke but I was planning on about 100 ft-lbs which it would take to set the cotter pin in the nut. I'm binding up at about 50 ft-lbs so the nut is not down enough to set the cotter pin. I am using the USM but not too descriptive on the rear yoke torque. BTW, is there a full list of torque values somewhere as the USM has only 24 values for the entire frame and drivetrain? Thanks for all the comments. [IMG]uploads/8502/e-brake_2018-11-20_17-24-04.JPG[/IMG][IMG]uploads/8502/yokes_2018-11-20_17-25-42.JPG[/IMG] |
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Ron
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CJbuilder
Member Joined: 12 July 2017 Location: Ft Collins Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Not sure the photos went thru. Let me fix that and add them.
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Ron
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athawk11
Member Joined: 18 Jan. 2012 Location: Arvada,Colorado Status: Offline Points: 4151 |
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Jeff Davis had a good thought. Did you do something to the TC while it was out? Did you pull the rear bearing cap and forget to put the shims back in?
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1- 1946 CJ2A
2- 1949 CJ3A |
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CJbuilder
Member Joined: 12 July 2017 Location: Ft Collins Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Haven't quite figured out the way to upload a jpg file but I will.
In answer to Jeff's thread, I completely rebuilt the transfer case and followed closely the youtube videos by metalshaper and I did put in shims and measure tolerances in all cases. Metalshaper showed putting 120 ft-lbs on the rear yoke/drum without much trouble. I did notice his oil seal looked inset about 1/4" or more but he had a CJ3 TC - don't know if there's a difference. |
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Ron
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cal.bar
Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2016 Location: So. Cal. Status: Offline Points: 767 |
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I've seen metal shapers videos about that and the T90 transmission. He leaves many things out of his videos. I'd go back and check a few others to double check what you did.
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athawk11
Member Joined: 18 Jan. 2012 Location: Arvada,Colorado Status: Offline Points: 4151 |
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Are you certain you removed the old seal entirely? Every time I replace them, they come apart, but I think it would be obvious if the back face of the seal were left in. Perhaps your seal stands taller than spec. The TC in a 3A is the same as a 2A...in most cases. Edited by athawk11 - 20 Nov. 2018 at 11:34pm |
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1- 1946 CJ2A
2- 1949 CJ3A |
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CJbuilder
Member Joined: 12 July 2017 Location: Ft Collins Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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I'm pretty darn sure I cleaned out the seals. The TC was a mess when we started so we scraped, soaked, and dug out all the dirt and muck. We primed and painted the case, and both housings so I'm sure the landings for the grease seals were very clean. If you watch the metalshaper video, he torques down the rear yoke and drum like it's a walk in the park. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but there is a reason I'm hanging up on this yoke and seal/housing.
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Ron
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