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Power-Lok limited slip in Dana 25

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oldtime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2021 at 7:32pm
I just set up new gears and installed Powr Loks into 6 axles last week. Set up time was a day each. 3 D44’s and 3 D30’s.

I noticed that it is possible to assemble the case without the plates being fully meshed together.
Also when I assemble I slather all plates with lubricant before assembly.
I use Mobil One gear lube without extra additive and have always had excellent results.

When you manually roll your Jeep foreward or back does the differential make a notable squeaking/squealing sound ?
Kinda sounds like the pinion seal is way too tight ?

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2021 at 10:57pm
Hey Ken
Just picked up another series 4, D-30, 27 spline, PL for parts. GOOD PARTS are, case, left hand bolts, "solid"  cross shafts, and clutch rings. 
BAD PARTS are,  spider gears, side gears, and the clutch pack. 
Would you happen to have any used parts that you can part with?

PL came out of a '69 Bronco. I also have the 4:10 R&P from it.
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2021 at 11:11pm
Sorry Jim none.
You well know that the D30 Powr Loks are hard to come by.
I’ll sure let you know if I do see any of em surface.

I do have a set of extremely rare parts available to convert a 19 spline D44 Powr Lok over to 30 spline side gears.
It’s a complete set of late type one piece 30 spline side gears, side gear cups, cross shafts and spider gears.
I’m just now ready to sell it and will post it somewhere soon.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2021 at 12:39am
No squeaks from my pumpkin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2021 at 8:06am
Dave, I can’t hardly imagine what is causing your steering issues.
Over the years I have installed a lot of these Powr Loks into both front and rear carriers. Without encouring any steering problems.
From your description it sounds as if you have zero differential action. In other words something in the front differential assembly is locked up tight.
So my guess is that either the side gears, or the spider gears are not turning or else the friction disks are mis aligned. (Bound up inside the differential case)
The only other sensible consideration is that an axle shaft joint has partly exploded or somehow bound up inside one of the steering knuckles. That would force all power toward the opposite axle shaft. Essentially one front wheel being driven full time with minimal slip.


Edited by oldtime - 24 July 2021 at 8:16am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2021 at 9:16am
I've had front powr loks in D25 and D30 and haven't experienced anything near what you describe.
From 1975 to present day. It's all I use up front.
1947 CJ2A 225V6 SM420 D30 PLok/D44 D/Locker Warn OD 5:38s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2021 at 11:26am
  Going through my thread on ecj5 about this, I found the chart with the plate/clutch arrangement I used when putting this turd together. It's the factory arrangement for a 27. I dunno what's going on with this thing. Some folks say they steer like poop. Some have no trouble at all. 

I don't think I have the time I would need ( I'm slow and work a regular job) to rip this thing out and check it out or replace it and find someone to set up another gear set before leaving on Thursday. No time today or tomorrow to work at it. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobevans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2021 at 10:01pm
Sorry I didn't respond sooner!.  My steering has loosened up.  In 2WD with hubs unlocked, it seems fine.  In 4WD with hubs locked, it is noticeably harder to turn, but better than it was.  On the disappointing side, on a recent trip to Southington (during the Spring Reunion) it sure didn't seem like the front tires were both digging at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BD1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 7:39pm
Are the friction plates in the Dana 25 Power-Lok interchangeable with those in the dana 44 Power-Lok? I'm still a little on the fence as far as putting a Power-Lok in my front axle. I can find the re-build plates for the 44 everywhere, but I haven't found plates for the 25 or 27 anywhere.
BD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by BD1 BD1 wrote:

Are the friction plates in the Dana 25 Power-Lok interchangeable with those in the dana 44 Power-Lok? I'm still a little on the fence as far as putting a Power-Lok in my front axle. I can find the re-build plates for the 44 everywhere, but I haven't found plates for the 25 or 27 anywhere.

NO.  D-25, 27, 30 use the same clutch packs. D-44 is much larger.

Call Border Parts located in Spring Valley, CA. They may have some for ya.

found this for ya.      








Edited by jeepsterjim - 26 July 2021 at 8:01pm
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nivrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 8:01pm
Guys whatever you do don't throw away any 25/27/30 clutch discs as they are getting extremely hard to come by.
 I have taken old clutch discs and sandblasted and/or glass beaded them to put a bit of a surface back on them and put them back in and ran them. I have noticed no adverse effect to these and cant tell the difference from new ones. In the future for those of us who still run them this may be our only choice. I can still find D44 clutch discs but as was said earlier the fronts are running out.

FWIW,
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2021 at 11:37pm
I thought Herm was selling the rebuild kits but I could be wrong. Might want to check with him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelyard Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2022 at 11:26pm
Bringing up this old post out of curiosity. 

I see a few of the NOS Dana 27 Power-Loks are still out there. I'm considering picking one up for a future rebuild of the stock Dana 25 while they are still available. I have been debating this for a while and read as many posts as I could find. I see a lot of debate on the effect this has on steering.

I'm looking to keep the rear end stock. At this time, my off road adventures are pretty tame but I would like to get her out a bit more. Maybe a trip to Moab or something similar. I don't spend a lot of time in the snow. I have Warn hubs and stock NDTs. Jeep is essentially stock and I plan to keep her that way. I would like a little more capability if I do get into a situation. 

For those of you with a similar set up, what is your experience and is it worth the cost?

Thanks,
Micah 
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https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2022 at 12:17am
Originally posted by Steelyard Blues Steelyard Blues wrote:

Bringing up this old post out of curiosity. 

I see a few of the NOS Dana 27 Power-Loks are still out there. I'm considering picking one up for a future rebuild of the stock Dana 25 while they are still available. I have been debating this for a while and read as many posts as I could find. I see a lot of debate on the effect this has on steering.

I'm looking to keep the rear end stock. At this time, my off road adventures are pretty tame but I would like to get her out a bit more. Maybe a trip to Moab or something similar. I don't spend a lot of time in the snow. I have Warn hubs and stock NDTs. Jeep is essentially stock and I plan to keep her that way. I would like a little more capability if I do get into a situation. 

For those of you with a similar set up, what is your experience and is it worth the cost?

Thanks,
Micah 

I've ran PL's and detroits up front with manual steering. YES a few times I've had to let off the gas OR tap the brakes to release the limited slip. Over all, at Jeeping speeds, I've experienced no serious steering issues in my 2A or Commando. In my 2A build, I have installed PL's in the D30 & D 44. 
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2022 at 10:01am
I’ve been running limited slips since my new 1976 CJ-5.
Then went to a Willys 1948 2A with open/open from 1978-1983. 
Then in 1983 I finished my second build (3B) with front and rear Powr Loks.
Basically every Jeep I have owned or built since (several) have Powr Lok at both ends.

I do a lot on solo trips (no trailering) in extreme remote locations, so I always rely upon having a backup system. My take is:

2WD open is 2WD open

2WD plus a traction device is at least 75% as effective as 4WD open/open.
However it provides no backup when and not if you get stuck. So when you do get stuck in a 2WD having LS or any other traction device; you are always in deeper.

4WD open/open is pretty safe because your front axle functions as backup.
But 4WD open/open will leave you stranded in the more remote areas.

4WD of any configuration will usually pull you out of most situations where you got stuck in 2WD plus a traction device.

So 4WD with rear traction device will take “most” folks anywhere they ever wanna go and you only need engage the open front axle if you get stuck using the rear drive.
So operating any traction device rear is nearly fool proof of you have a front axle for backup.
For those pushing extreme remote access then having a traction device at both ends reigns supreme.

Pursuing the limits of access and for rock crawling the winch becomes your final back-up system.

The optimum type of traction device that one should choose and which axle gets what device really depends on the driving conditions.

IMHO the original Thornton Powr Lok developed for the military by Dana Spicer remains supreme to date for being the most versatile under a wide variety of driving conditions. And it’s all automatic so you don’t even need to think about what axle is doing what.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 43 Flat-Fender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2022 at 10:27am
Thank you "oldtime" for those of us wanting to take "The Next Step" in axle upgrades and capability.
Very useful and experienced information.
Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2022 at 10:53am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Pursuing the limits of access and for rock crawling the winch becomes your final back-up system.

That will also get you out in 2x4 mode (or 1x4 mode if no traction device) when things go south, most especially if you have a full float rear axle that can be easily "free wheeled".  With the rather huge assumption that you purchased a quality winch that can stand some abuse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2022 at 12:29pm
What Micah suggests is certainly a decent plan.
The Willys will go a lot of places with just 2WD rear open. 
Especially true if the gearing is further reduced.
Having a limited slip front differential for backup should be effective to get the Jeep unstuck virtually every time the 2WD falters.
He’ll be going lots of new places like that but certainly not able to keep up with “Grampas Jeep”.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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