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T-98 / T-18 trans to L134 bellhousing

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Greaser007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb. 2021 at 9:44pm
    Sunday afternoon, Feb, 21, 2021  @  1:30pm Pacific Time:

     I discovered an interesting possible problem.  As i looked at and moved the 3rd / 4th synchronizer ring on the synchronizer hub,  i noticed the clips and clip retaining ring moving forward and aft with the 3rd / 4th gear shifting Ring !!
I thought this means the retaining ring on the other side is Hay-Wire.
The clips are supposed to keep the 3rd / 4th shifting ring centered on the synchronizer hub.


     This shows the poppet clip (in the hub groove) pulled out from the hub with the ring.
     Upon removing the synchronizer hub from the mainshaft the 3-clips are retained by the inside spring clip.  The 3 centering clips appear to he held for and aft by the synchronizer rings (bronze).
So, i have determined everything looks to be in order when installing the syncro with the input shaft (driven gear - technical name).    When the input and syncro are in place the big syncro ring centers itself properly on the hub when in neutral.
      Note:   if you look closely, laying in the bottom of the syncro hub is a roller bearing from where the input shaft indexes with the mainshaft pilot.


  
     This shows the clip and clip ring retainer pushed back in the hub.
notice the needle bearing hiding behind the spring clip in the  bottom.





Edited by Greaser007 - 07 Mar. 2021 at 5:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 2:13am
I'm back with more discoveries of March 4th:
What I need to address is the oil return hole and galley from the front bearing retainer back into the transmission case.
     So, for starters, the Willys L134 front bearing retainer sits nestled into the "Coffee Cup Coaster" aluminum adapter my machinist made.  I need to figure out how to provide a galley.

     What i did is to locate on the aluminum adapter where i need to bore a hole through it to carry oil back into the transmission case.  I bored a countersunk 5/16" hole.  Then at an angle through the adapter, i drilled a hole through.   This hole will line up with a new 5/16" hole drilled into the backside of the front bearing retainer.   Next, to carry oil from the original oil galley recess, I drilled a series of holes, and then with Dremel and a diamond wheel, i cut out between the series of holes to provide a galley to carry oil from the retainer side (front of bearing), on through the hole in the adapter plate and on through the original oil return hole in the transmission case.    Bingo !   problem solved.


    In the above photo:   the cast iron front bearing retainer is lined up with the oil return hole drilled at and angle through the aluminum adapter plate.    
My thoughts are:   if i were to use a sealed bearing for the front, would i really need an oil return hole ?



    In this image, when the cast retainer is seated into the adapter, it is rotated so the hole at the upper end of the galley matches up with the hole in the adapter.   
Yes, i did bunches of head-scratching, and oogling at my Oil Return Galley 'rubix-cube'  yep.




    The above photo shows the oil return hole marked in yellow.
The bearing retainer has been modified to channel oil front the front side of the retainer, back into the case.
Note:    where the oil return channel has been cast into the front L134 bearing retainer, it is raised above the surrounding surfaces.   I didn't have enough meat (material thickness to cut a passage perpendicular to the input shaft centerline, so that is the reason for drilling holes and cutting between them.    My idea was to cut the galley through the thick flange portion of the Front Bearing Retainer.
The surface of the aluminum adapter with drain hole shown, mates up with the trans case hole marked in yellow.   So from this image, both the retainer and adapter get flipped over for install.



     In this above photo:   i am removing the clutch fork pivot ball.  It is the push-in style, so i twisted it with the Vise Grips while prying upwards with a big screw driver.   It worked !


     In the above photo:   I am showing the removed clutch fork pivot ball.
The ball needs replacing because it is badly worn.
Don't men service or do periodic service to their rigs so they don't have to be towed home by their buddies ?


Now i can move on _ _ _ _ to addressing a mismatch between the rear face of the Ford T-98 trans case to IH Scout T-case adapter plate.


Edited by Greaser007 - 07 Mar. 2021 at 2:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 3:49am
March 6th 2021 project update:    Slooww going.   yep !    hahaha
Hey, why crack a sweat when i just did, taking care of the home-front firstest.   As always right !
I have learned that if i do go out of my way to appease my squaw, life is good or gooderest yep.
Whatever.    Hey, at least I drug my dad in and out of the Rubicon a few times and the 3-day trek through the Dusy Ershim Trail up in the Sierra Nevada Mountains east and north of Fresno, California.
    I remember one year when he was 65 years old and i was 42, and we hiked 6-miles in and 6-mile out in one afternoon to explore the Barrett Lake Jeep Trail up in the vicinity of the Rubicon.   He dang near out walked me, and i was the one asking for breaks.    hahaha

Ok  here we go exploring the Mis-Match between the Ford T-98 rear face and the IH Scout T-case 
Adapter plate:    It doesn't match up in one spot as i was scrutinizing the gasket mating to both supposedly mating surfaces.   Hmm.    a No Go


   this photo above shows the difference between the Ford T-98 trans case gasket, and the IH Scout T-case adapter plate surface.    Hmm,  what to do:  ???
Note: in the area of mis-match, the IH Scout T-18 transmission case matches the adapter plate.
I wonder how the rear of a newer '70's vintage Ford T-18 case would match up with the Scout plate ?


So, i have two choices:
   1 -   weld up one of the surfaces to mate with the other.
or
   2 -  build up the required area needed for mating with JB Weld or similar.


   In this photo above:   the area at the tip of the screwdriver is where i will build up with weld beads, and then draw-file the weld bead down flush with the rear face.  This will allow a match-up between surfaces.


This above photo shows my 'practice' filler bead on the donor Ford bell housing.
I basically overlayed several spot welds (or stictch welds).   I'm feeling lucky !!
Hey, i tried knocking loose the filler bead with the claws of a 22-oz framing hammer and it was a no-budge.


Open air welding table _ _ _ doesn't get any better.   Well, except the termites keep getting into my wood rounds when standed on end.   yep, those pesky devils work around the clock too.


   In this photo:   my paper gasket shows covering the area built-up with mig-weld-bead.  I made this yellow lined paper gasket to check Fitment.
The paper gasket I purchased which was made by Crown "doesn't fit properly.  The gasket for the t-case side of the adapter fits ok.    Re-Pop market stuff can be a real crap-shoot.
This means i now must buy a pack of gasket material 0.0012 thick, and make my own which fits.



    in the above photo:     Welding and flat filing are DONE.    whew
My mis-match of the T-98 trans case to t-case adapter plate has been solved without having to call in some $85 per hour welding guy.    Is the welding guys work any better ?   _ _ _ that depends.   LoL
Probably  !!     hahahaha     hey, remember, i am a lifelong welder, but no expert.
If i were younger, I'd buy me a nice used TIG welder.  (I still have trouble soldering, and properly prepping surfaces to be tinned.    Oh well.


Personally,  i have been welding since 8-years old, so you get the drift.
Now the question:   How to weld up an area to be dressed down ?
Easy _ _ _ just fire up an electric arc welder _ _ _ mig or stick electrode.
I can direct a quick spot weld with my mig, where-as with a stick electrode, it is a crap-shoot where my weld bead will be once an arc is struck.     oh yeah, try again, and don't let the electrode stick to the workpiece.     hahaha
I just don't stick weld often enough to do a spot weld with a stick.   That is an acquired art.

You guessed it right !!     Yep, i'll be using my 225 mig-master with .035 steel wire.

I began by attempting to mig weld on the Ford bell housing donor a filler bead.   Yes, at first i had my heat too low, and turned up both to 3 setting and wire speed at 3.    Hey, nice !
Ok, as that red-neck yelled to his buddies:  "hey y'all, watch This" !!
So here goes, i'm going in with both feet, so if there is no bottom,  _ _ i'm a gonner.    LoL

For whatever reason, my first try on the Ford T-98 trans case my heat was too cold.   Hmmm ??
It was just a-ok on the '79 Ford truck bellhousing.    Aha,  the bell was warm, and the trans case was cold.    Temp can make a difference.    So i turned up the heat and wire speed a bump.

Geeze Louise,  ever try draw-filing a surface for flatness ?
My next hour was spent ever so lovingly flat filing my fillet weld on the Ford T-98 case so the sealing surface will match up with that of the IH Scout adapter plate.
So, for you guys wishing to do one of these conversions,  spend $2k and buy one race-ready.
I wanted to wade my way through this, so $$ and time is no biggie.   If i happen to pass before i complete this rubix cube, my wife will proably just toss it into the weekly dumpster Bin.    Omg




Edited by Greaser007 - 07 Mar. 2021 at 4:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar. 2021 at 7:34pm
   Well, i've been doing some head scratching on proper re-assembly procedures because the Warner service manual has a NOTE:   "Use special push / pull tool blah blah blah to properly install the front and rear mainshaft bearings to prevent pushing the syncro cone into the brass syncro ring and expanding it."
    Hmmm
    

So, to check for this "Squash" syndrome thing, I did some Checking !!   _ _ with my trusty mic:


    measuring the slot on the input shaft where I may insert a "squash-eliminator" plate to use during installation of the front bearing.   measured close to 0.180"  nearly 3/16" it appears.

     measuring gap with 4th gear snycro ring removed.


     measuring gap between rear face of Input Shaft and front face of 3rd / 4th syncro hub.
Yep, there is an obvious difference that the syncro holds the shaft forward away from the syncro hub.



    4th gear (direct) syncro ring with painted notches.   _ _ _ just me.
Hey, i paid good money for this wrecking yard style paint marking pen, so i'm using it.    haha LoL


Gap between the rear face of input shaft to 3rd gear front face:  (no needle bearings installed).
with brass syncro ring removed  =  0.216"
with brass syncro ring installed  =   0.260"

End result:   I found there to be about 0.005-inch with rounding, squash possible !

I remember reading in another build thread somewhere in my 'bookmarks' but I failed to isolate it into a folder Specific to "input shaft Support", so i haven't found it yet.   I have a bazillion bookmarks with info related to the T-18 Borg Warner transmission, and i trying to find anything is overwhelming.  Ugh

     Ok, so Here are some interesting SIMILARITIES between the T98 and T18 internals:
The "needles" that the T18 Countershaft rides on are the same as the needles used in the front of the mainshaft to input shaft (driven gear).   Technical terms like "driven gear" drive me Knutz !

Needle measurements i get:  0.0187" dia. x 0.986" long, whether new or used.

Did i use the new needles which came from a "small parts kit" with no name on label.   hell No !!
I am re-using known good needles which are probably OEM Borg Warner.   Being superstitious, i prefer using known-good components rather than imported un-known's.
Personally, i haven't had satisfactory luck with Crown gaskets whether carburetor or trans.

     I like speaking in Laymen's terms like the daily mechanic.     hahahaha (knuckle buster wrench) !!
From wrestling with the heavy gear sets, my finger nails are broken back to the pink.   As Always !!
And skinned knuckles is a given each week.

     Ok so Thursday, March 11th I was wanting to check a few things, so i installed the needle bearings into the rear of the Input Shaft to check Fitment to the front nubber of the Mainshaft.   Hey, i used light Napa general purpose wheel bearing grease to stick the needles (22) of them, and then light oil on the surface of the front mainshaft nubber, and stuck the two together to check "Wobble" at the front pilot-bearing end of the Input Shaft.    WoW  !!   I am impressed  !!   not more than 1/16" sideways movement, so much tighter fit than expected.    Also, i measured the diameter of the hole in the rear of the input shaft to be 1.510".
measured the O.D. of the Mainshaft nubber that rides inside the needles to be 1.135" O.D. x 1" long.



      Another thing i Learned upon inserting the Input and Mainshaft into the Ford T98 case:
I could not get the mainshaft nubber into the rear of the input shaft, with the Input inserted into the case prior to installing the main shaft assembly !!!!
      What i have learned in the past is:     many manual transmission input shafts have a notch cut into the teeth that the syncro ring meshes with which will allow insertion clearance past the cluster gear teeth while inserting the mainshaft from the front.    Bingo !!


    This photo shows the clearance "notch" in the input shaft allowing the shaft to be inserted from the front of the transmission case after the Main Shaft assembly has been carefully lowered into the case and supported on the input end with mechanic's wire, and supported in the output end with a block of some sort (I used a plastic cap).


  
      This was the procedure that I used:
      I suspended the front of the mainshaft assembly with mechanic's wire nearest to center that I could (for insertion into the female end of the input shaft).   I propped-up the rear of the Main shaft assembly at Output end with a plastic spray cap.   I then very carefully insterted the Input Shaft through the hole in the front of the T98 Case, being sure the "notch" was on the bottom and clearing the cluster teeth as i slowly rotated the input while working it back.    Make certain the notch in the syncro rings matches up the the "clips" in the 3rd / 4th syncro-hub and shifting ring.
I don't think the input shaft would go in if the syncro isn't lined up with the clips.
      Now,  I have a confession to make:
     I have splayed needles everywhere in my assembly area.   No kidding !! 


  
Remember, when i was removing the clip to access the 3rd / 4th gear syncro assembly, the clip shot off and bounced of my stomach and ricochyed over off the bench.    That sucker is a GONER !!!
Well, when i reached over to grab my flashlight to compile a 'search', the clip was hanging from the magnet on the base of my flashlight  !!    Go Figure.
     I wonder how many more needles i will find throughout 2021 shop cleaning excursions ?    LoL

     Here is the Deal guys:      All of the needles measure identical.    Good News !!
Upon close measure, i couldn't find any differences between the old and the new.
Me -  being supersticious,  i reused all the old original BW Countershaft and Input Shaft needles from the IH Scout T18 internals.    I always reuse those parts which appear serviceable.

Did i mention earlier a Similarity between the GM SM465 and Warner T18  ???
They both share the same rear output bearing.   They look IDENTICAL.   How's that for Apples !!!

      Because i do happen to have disassembled both the SM465 and T18 side by side, i can very clearly see the differences, but very similar.


     this photo shows in 'yellow' the original line of the Ford T98 case.   I used my 225 mig using steel wire to build-up the necessary area so the IH Scout t-case Adapter Plate will match up.
Yes, i had to make a gasket to match with the IH Scout plate.  The gasket i purchased from an online vendor was made by Crown, and was Waaayy out of spec to use.   What a p*sser.
Using the mig machine, the weld in quick stitches lays material down so fast the transmission doesn't know what hit it.     hahahaha    Zap  Zap  peen zap peen zapp zapp peen.   then hand machine the surface with a large bastard file.     slow and Care-Full.
   Well, i've been freezing my butt even with the propane portable heater burning one side of me while I chip ice off the other side.    Yep, knumb fingers, and all _ _ _ you know the drill.


 Currently, i need to source a new rear Mainshaft bearing, and will probably make some local phone calls first before i place an order online.

      Oh, yep,  i've been having starting issue's with my Ford 460 in a '78 for Van.
The other day the engine was kicking back against the starter.   hmmm,  what the heck !!!! ???
Yesterday, i pulls the spark plugs (no not Willy's related, but similar addiction and symptoms) and checked them all with my handy "spark-checker" tool.   The spark checker is the Briggs 3.5hp push mower !!    yep, i was on the spark end, and my wife was on the pull-rope end.   All eight spark plugs sparked.   Hmm.  why was the engine kicking back against the starter and stalling the cranking ?
     Just for Grins, i decided to see what compression one of the cylinder's is pushing.   175 psi !!
But while attempting to turn over the engine against the one cylinder with the compression gauge in place the engine bumped up against the gauge the second revolution after hitting 175 the first rev, and the Starter STALLED OUT  !!!!
      Now we know what I will be working on today.    Yep, the hopeful removal of the 460 Starter, to then take it in for exchange for a rebuilt unit.   ( I know, i dislike refurb's but repops are nothing special.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar. 2021 at 3:39am
Sunday, March 14, 2021:    a miserable wet and rainy day.   yuck, and Cold

     So yep, today, i'm feeling Lucky.   So i get the small ball peen hammer and begin co-ercing the front and rear mainshaft bearings in place.  rata-tat and tap tap carefully and slowly.
I get the rear bearing in place.  I wanted to say the inner race on the shaft is a tight fit but the outer race slid in to the Ford T98 case easily.   Next i focus on the front bearing now.   Ok, things are not looking good.   Hmm, what the heck.   Remember the outer race of the bearing is a slide-in fit into the case, and i can push the input shaft back to where it looks correct with the syncro for 4-th gear.   I gently tapped the front bearing up to where the outer snap ring was against the trans case, and i still had about 3/32-inch gap between the rear face of the bearing, and the front face of the input shaft gear.    Hmmm, what the heck  ???
     I NOTICED on disassembly of the input shaft and mainshaft the "suspicious" Gap.   Hmmm
Now, why does this gear case swap require the use of the thicker front bearing.
I am 'wondering' if someone ahead of me, installed the narrow front bearing, and didn't check for Gaps, and pulled the tranny because of it not staying in 4-th gear, which is what gear the gap would affect.   Why must i always have to Trouble-Shoot stuff i buy second-hand ?    why ?
Because !    _ _ _ because i usually go for the stuff that is different or odd-ball.    Is IH norm ?
     
    I'm driving head-long into a Severe Winter Storm Advisory tomorrow again with my 32yo son for some nice Powder Skiing.   Yep,  the snow storm will be Brutal, but we have the proper gear !  BEER !
When the temps are near 22-degrees or less, the body needs some sort of Anti-Freeze to stay Limber.
Nowadayz, i'm the sober driver, and my son enjoys the BEERS.  I have real fond memories of when I was his age.   yep, I was 30-yo when i bought my CJ-7.

     Ok, so i did mic the thick and thin front bearings, and the difference is what gap needs filling for the bearing to push the input shaft back to where it almost touches the syncro clips (3 of them).
     This gap is slight but must not be tight.   What the Service Manual says is when shifting, the shift ring on the synchronizer hub pushes the syncro clips against the syncro, pushing the taper of the syncro onto the tapered hub on the gear slowing and assisting gear mesh.    Important note:   like the manual says,  do not press the cone into the syncro or the syncro won't slow down on the cone providing for smooth gear mesh.
What i wound up doing is using a small ball peen hammer to slowly coax the bearing onto the front and rear shafts.   The logic is simple:    the small hammer weighs much less than the piece the bearing is being driven onto lessening movement possibly damaging the syncro.

Here is what I get for bearing thickness:
thin bearing  =  0.905 inch
thick bearing  =  0.790 inch
Difference  =  0.115 inch      _ _ _   aha, just about right to push the input back further.

      After i get all the gremlins figured out, then i have to check the shift tower for proper operation. 

      The following link has some interesting reading:

In the link above, Stew discusses his "gap" like i am experiencing.   yep.
He mentions having to use the thicker front bearing, but had to remove the large oil-sling washer that resides behind the front bearing.    Ok, i'm toasted for the day.   Done-In, and my brain is mush.
Member xlr8n mentioned some '78 models did not use the oil slinger washer with the wider bearing.
Go Figure !!       _ _ _ I now have more measuring to do next time i work on this puzzle.   :)
        see you next update !


Edited by Greaser007 - 15 Mar. 2021 at 4:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2021 at 2:33pm
Monday, March 22, 2021 -  update:    @ 7:20am   PCT

      I miraculously discovered an answer to the Big Question i had of the two thicknesses of front input shaft bearings.

      Each article i read on the net has some good information, but many do not go into elaborate detail on each proper step of re-assembly.  My Big Question up until Sunday, March 21st was:
    What one thing determines using the Thick .905" or the Thin  .790" bearing ?
The Input Shaft (Driven Gear) groove for the bearing retainer clip determines which front bearing is to be used !     I guess I somehow must have overlooked this on all of the articles i've read or seen on videos i've watched on uTube.
      If you want the answer of how i discovered this ?    simple simon, i tried installing the thin bearing part way, but not All-the-Way enough to install the retainer clip, and pulled it back off thinking I needed the wider bearing to "push" the driven gear back into the 3 / 4 Synchronizer assembly only to find out the retainer clip groove location will only accept either the Thick or the Thin of the two bearings.

      I have the Input Shaft removed, and i pulled the thick bearing off of it after dinner, and will hopefully find time this week to dive-in again to see how the Thin bearing works out.
( the Thick bearing wouldn't allow room for the retainer clip, So I have the THIN BEARING INPUT SHAFT ).   Remember, this is a Close-Ratio 4:1 granny 1st gear IH Scout innards being placed into the Ford T-98 case.   The cases both measure the same length.
For some suspicious reason, I am probably going to disassemble the trans mainshaft again looking for a mysterious "gap" between the Input gear and the 3-4 Synchronizer assembly.

      I spent 4-partial-days woodcutting last week because the free Pine was available, so i have not had the opportunity to properly focus on getting this transmission fully assembled.
       More later next time, so no answers today beyond my discovery that the Input Shaft retainer clip groove dictates which front "308" series bearing is to be used.

      Len
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2021 at 5:35pm
     Here is the latest.  I very carefully did a 'compare' of position of shift forks positions in relation to the position of the shift ring collars fore and aft on the Mainshaft assembly.   Voila !


    Measuring above to check fork positions against shift collar positions.



    Above photo showing what I consider to be too much 'gap' between syncro and gear.
    But, i am forcing everything over with the screwdriver



     I was getting the Gap when pushing the collar into 3rd gear position Further than the shift fork indents place it.    When in Neutral, the fork positions the 3 / 4 collar smack dab in the middle between the limits of fore-aft play allowed by the three clips which push against the brass synchro ring.
When the fork positions 3rd gear collar, it isn't positioned as far to the rear as i was able to push it by hand, thus creating the mystery gap.   I felt i needed to check neutral positioning of everything both when the trans is in Neutral or in each individual gear position.
     After all of my Checking, i have determined the transmission should run-in just  fine.



The above photo shows the 'normal' or 'neutral' position of the 3rd / 4th shift collar (ring).
All looks to be good and upon checking positioning of the shift fork, it positions the collar shown here, which is centered properly on the synchro hub.  The 3rd / 4th synchro hub is fixed on the mainshaft by a hefty clip.   This clip is the one that came flying off, bounced off of my belly and when it passed the bench, my magnetic base flashlight caought the pesky clips.   ( i'm still finding needle bearings ).  LoL
Hey, don't laugh until you have fallen victim to the disassembly head-aches.

NOTE:
We can insert and remove the input shaft easily with the mainshaft assembly in place, seeings how I have been switching bearings several times in my self-learning drill.
Look at above photo and you can see a Flat Spot cut into the 4th gear teeth (input shaft), which allows the input shaft (driven gear - according to some service manuals) teeth to pass by the teeth of the Cluster Gear.

      I did pull the rear bearing and inserted an 0.064" spacer ahead of the rear bearing to push the assembly forward to eliminate the gap.   Couldn't turn the mainshaft when tightening the front and rear bearing retainers (without gaskets).
I did do some 'checking' further, and did make a determination:
I am tempted to go to a transmission shop and look for a matchingdiameter spacer of 0.025" or 0.030" and pull the rear bearing once again and try it out of curiosity.    There is enough wiggle room of the collars that maybe the 0.025" spacer won't affect shift collar (ring) positions with the mainshaft pushed forward slightly.

I remember doing lots of shimming in decades past making old equipment run properly.

Back in the mid '60's, i repaired a bunch of motorcycle transmissions  just because i enjoyed trying to figure out why they would not shift or stay in gear.   Pretty basic really.    hahahaha  "clocking"
I'd go broke trying to earn a living as a mech.   I have to assemble and disassemble too many times before i am happy with the outcome.
     The gap between synchro and gear with synchro up against the cone looks consistent for 2nd, 3rd and 4th.   Checking this gap against those of the T-98 mainshaft synchro's was the same. The synchro rings do easily tighten against the cones by hand when bench checked.



This input shaft was cut down for me by Moser Engineering upon request to the T-90 / L134 template.  I LIKE their expertise !!
This shows the "coffee cup coaster" adapter which becomes the front bearing retainer for the T-18 and also cradles or holds the (cup) and the 'cup' being the T-90 / L134 front bearing retainer compatible with the early Willys L134 release bearing for the clutch.


This is looking from the haunches in mock up state showing the IH Scout Transfer case adapter plate.
I bought the IH Scout T-18 transmission with the straight-thru D-20 transfer case from a guy in Paradise, California a few years ahead of the wildfire that destroyed the community.

Now, i don't know any specifics, but this T-18 trans has the screw on shift lever cap.
And, i did discover that the syncro cones of the Ford T-98 are a much smaller diameter than those of the T-18.   Truthfully,  my brain is so cluttered with technical data and measuring with the calipers, I cannot describe a distinction with what interchanges, but there is no mis-installing one or the other syncro rings into the other.

 
Above i am showing the last item which goes in before the Cover tower:  Reverse idler shift lever.
Lightly grease or lubricate with oil the pivot pin and O-ring seal and install.   I haven't yet driven in the retainer Pin (if i can find it after a 15-month haitus.    hahahaha    _ _ good luck right !
Kinda like trying to find the clips, springs and balls that shoot all over the shop, when least expected.
Believe me -   you CAN expect this stuff to take flight never to be retrieved again.    LoL

Hey, not to dispair -   the needles interchange between the Cluster and Mainshaft both.     no worries guys.  I mic'd the needle bearings on both the T-18 and T-98 and all needles measured the same for both diameter and length, so, if you loose needles, just buy a small parts kit for $25.  no sleep loss.




Above shows my Ford T-98 case holding IH Scout 4:1 T-18 innards.  Modified Scout-to-L134 Input.  Custom made front bearing retainer adapter (coffee cup coaster) holding in place the T-90 front bearing retainer for the L134 throw-out bearing carrier.   Like Seth had to do with his T-18 conversion, he had to have the carrier machined so the throwout bearing moves back approx 0.25-inches because the aluminum adapter pushes the T-90 retainer about the 1/4-inch forward from the face of the transmission.




as you can see above, i have not installed the front bearing-to-input shaft retainer clip yet.
The T-90 front bearing retainer shown is a new-used part I purchased while up in Plymouth, Calif., in April 2019 while browsing through the used parts booth at the Historical Military Meet, which Doug Nile suggested I attend to sell a couple of GPW L134 engine blocks i have in mothballs.   
Besides the Front Retainer, I purchased a nice cj2a Fuel Tank which needed the brass outlet bung re-soldered,   I got a nice set of L134 Connecting Rods,  and some nice used clutch parts.

Note:
On my Scout T-18 input shaft, it only will accept the thin front bearing.
Now, i have read where when installing the thin bearing, the oil deflector washer must be discarded.
Hmm,  not on mine.  I 'first' installed the thin bearing with the raised part of the washer towards the bearing.   IT RUBBED !!    _ _ yes, guys i got to pull off the bearing and turn the washer over so the raised outer portion faces the rear, essentially laying up against the gear face.  No More Rubbing !!   Yeay



   the mad-scientist's creation.  I guess it would be called a "modified" Borg Warner T-18.

   Currently i am feeling very good about how i have everything set up, but not yet with gaskets.

     One thing i can say about this Build project, i have had this design in my head since 1984, and made it a High-Priority bucket list item once i retired, and now i can look back with a Big SMILE of gratification that it all came together.   Seth's T-18 build thread was an inspiration, and as he was, I am very pleased with the handi-work Moser Engineering did for me, and my machinist, Mark at A&A Welding and Machine in Anderson, California for his willing-ness to make my Coffee Cup Coaster front adapter for me.   I've around $400 total in machining at A&A, and $200 at Moser Engineering.

      The nice thing about this conversion is there is no need for an adapter plate between the T-18 transmisison and the L134 Go Devil bell housing.   The trans will slide right out like conventional. 

      Next will be to research the D-20 to D-18 transfer case mod threads that Ken (Oldtime) created a couple of years back.   I don't have his link located quite yet, but he has a wealth of information to be digested.





Edited by Greaser007 - 29 Mar. 2021 at 1:30am
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Millennium falcon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2021 at 5:39pm
Sounds like you’re making good progress. I’m glad my build gave you some inspiration! Have fun! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2021 at 8:34pm
    Me too Seth.

     Ugh, i have way too many projects with most of them on the back burner.    hahahaha
Geesh with all of life's interruptions, it has been a long journey, and with waiting for parts as i figure out that  "oh yeah"  i need more pieces and parts.

     I waited weeks patiently for my machinist to set aside time for my needs, aside from his good money making projects.

     Looking back,  I had a most wonderful experience sampling electrodes for welding cast iron only to discover that the Harris 99 nickel rod was my Candy.    Good god the stuff flows in like molten solder, and ran low heat like Lincoln and Ken (oldtime) suggested.    No cracking yet in all the pieces i have welded with the Harris 99.   I even used my 1957 Lincoln SA-200 portable welder for this project.  I had to clean up and service the welder for the task, and sold it for $2800 when finished.    ha  $$$  to help fund the Addiction.

      I'm kinda thinking a Tera 3:1  transfer case gear set would compliment the Scout 4:1 T-18.   :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr. 2021 at 7:38pm
Here we go !     let's see here -  Friday April 02, 2021:

      Last night is slid the L134 Willys bell housing over the indexing front bearing retainer adapter, and bolted it up to the T98 / T18 mix  T18.    The Mix !!    You can only imagine the idea's i have in my brain which is not yet on paper.   I wanted to get a photo to share of the Trans / Bell-housing pair.


   Above:   IH Scout T-18 input cut down to the T-90 template, and T-90 Throw-out bearing and Carrier.   Note:   the Carrier needed to be cut back 1/4-inch to move the Throw-out Bearing rear-ward because of the "Coffee Cup Coaster" adapter / brg retainer moves things forward approx. 1/4-inch.



   Above:    threw my Starrett dial indicator on the Scout T-18 Output for Run-Out.   Was spot-on !



   Above:    Look into my One-Eye  !!     hahahaha
Amazing how perserverence and lack of patience does pay-off after days and dayz or getting Dayzed !!   LoL
The new throwout fork i ordered from Peter DeBella and most of my other 'stuff' (goodies).
Funny how for us big boys, the Willy's parts supplier's are like Candy Stores.    hahahaha  _ _ kids !





   Above:    mock-up of the Bell-housing with throw-out brg and carrier assembly in place, but nothing pressed together.
     Note:    If you look closely at the Willys Service Manual, you will see very clearly, the nodule for the throw-out brg carrier "return-spring" is near the rear of the carrier.
Most all carrier's i found showed the nodule near the Front.    The Best Fit sold by DeBella is the only one i found in my internet searches with the nodule at the rear, giving me room on the front for the bearing seat to be cut-back the required 1/4" for this whole apparatussus to work.     snicker.





     Above:    please note this set-up is not for Sissies.   the Ford truck T-98 case and bell housing flange bolts and holes are 9/16" diameter.    Overkill, but it is what i drug in in my parts gathering, which i did before doing any Research of what I was looking for.    Don't we all ?    hahaha




   Above:     I'll be go to Hell.    The Dream i constructed hundreds of times in my brain since 1984 has come to Fruition and Reality.    If you want to know the real truth,  i would have been screwed if it were not for Moser Engineering's willingness to cut my input shaft, and my machinist, Mark, @ A&A Welding and Machine for his willingness to tackle my menagerie.    good good stuff.





     Above:    Modified IH Scout / Ford mix Borg Warner T-18 top view.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr. 2021 at 8:07pm
   Above:      'smoke and mirrors'   
     on Left is a Borg Warner T-90 3-speed input shaft
     on Right is a Borg Warner T-18 4-speed input shaft with correct L134 spline template  & 17 tooth.
The yellow stripe is face of transmission.    And, the T-18 input requires a 1-inch adapter Plate (not mine).     My set-up does not require an adapter plate, and slides in place like a conventional trans.


    Above:    What do you guys think of this ?    Who made it ?

     This is a Borg Warner T-18 4-speed transmission adapter to bolt up to a Willys L134 or F134 engine bellhousing.
The "curse" of this setup is the bell housing and transmission become One-Unit together, and the trans will not just "slide-out" like most conventional transmissions do.



     Above:    this aluminum adapter plate was made by a machinist friend of the father of the son whom I purchased this set-up from.   The son rode several trips into the Rubicon with his dad when he was younger, and pulled this from his dad's jeep and going with a 4.3L Vortex and already has installed the correct input shaft to replace this.   This setup was behind a F134 in a '65 CJ5.

     Realistically,  i thought about this solution for many years, BUT, because i run solo mostly, i wanted the ability to slip the trans out for servicing in a conventional manner.

    My GUESS:    This set-up is probably very similar to Herm's is my guess.

     I was reading an article where a guy was going to weld an axle shaft with a special electrode.
Some guys get very nervous when you begin speaking of welding steering components !    ha !
One of my inspirations growing up was a neighbor who constructed race car chassis and suspension / streering set-ups.    If you are careful and use proper procedures, Pitman arms can safely be modified and used.   Remember pitman arms are NOT cast iron, but Steel.     anyway, this right here will cause differing of opinions, but i have not had any chassis or steering failures ever in 5-decades.
Gulp -  tomorrow could be the Haymaker.   LoL   ( i hope not ).



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldFlatty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan. 2022 at 12:58am
Hey Greaser, any luck on the 4 speed conversion moving forward?
Also, I read the whole thread but may have missed it; what was the reason for using the t-98 case but swapping the t-18 guts?  I saw the front of the case mounts weren't quite lining up on your bellhousing, was that the reason?  Did the t-98 case bolt to the bellhousing better?
Thanks
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