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Dauntless or Kubota

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52 M38 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 52 M38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dauntless or Kubota
    Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 3:09pm
I have a decision to make, doesn't need to be today, this month, or even this summer. 
 
Why am I doing a swap? The L134 has been substantially underwhelming with power, the T90 does not offroad well as the craw speed is too high and the non syncro'd 1st is a pain.  I will never take the jeep on the highway, and it is unlikely that I will rock craw at all with it.  The original drivetrain will remain with the jeep, as I would never sell it.
I have been building a second drivetrain that I want to install without ruining my jeep, ie it is going to be bolted in.  Both options will use a GM bellhousing 10.5" clutch, T15 transmission and D18 t-case.  The stock radiator was re-cored and now has about 50% higher cooling capacity, so cooling will never be a problem.  Axles are 5.38s, tires are 31".
 
I have a 67 Dauntless 225 Odd Fire that I have completely overhauled with high end stuff, it is in my barn and has yet to be fired up, probably will in the next few weeks.  It will produce roughly 160hp and 250Tq topping out at 4500ish RPM. This is not an easy engine to splice in, the exhaust is exactly where you wouldn't want it, the cooling doesn't line up right.  It can be done, and the jeep would be a monster, he would hence forth be known as Darth Sparky.
 
I have been looking at the Kubota turbo diesels. I can pick one up for about the same cost as the Dauntless swap.  It will produce roughly 75hp and 130Tq topping out at 2900ish RPM.  This engine basically drops in as it is essentially exactly the same size and weight of the L134, coolant lines up, exhaust is in the same place.  The turbo diesel sounds awesome.  
 
Opinions and recommendations please.
 
 


Edited by 52 M38 - 01 Apr. 2019 at 7:46pm
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Oldpappy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 3:30pm
About 30 years ago I bought a M38 which had the Dauntless V6 installed by a previous owner.
It still had the T90, but with a longer input shaft to fit the Buick bell housing.

The Jeep had headers which were a tight fit, but they did fit fine. Of course, it was a good power to weight ratio. I do not recall how the coolant hoses were done, nor do I recall any problem with that.

It didn't stay in the Jeep long after I got it, because I put it back to original with a L-134. Wish I still had that M38, it had as close to a perfect body as I have ever seen on an old Jeep, but I sold it about 20 years ago.

Since you already have the V6 built, why not go for that conversion? It was a very popular conversion back in the day, and those engines just sound cool with headers and glass packs.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 3:31pm
Quote  Why am I doing a swap? The L134 has been substantially underwhelming with power, the T90 does not offroad well as the craw speed is too high and the non syncro'd 1st is a pain.
Exactly true !

Willys engines were always mounted 1-1/2" left of frame centerline. 
The transmissions for 134 powered Jeeps were also offset 1-1/2".

The Dauntless should be positioned no further right nor left from the position that is 3/4" left of frame centerline.
In fact  the complete drivetrain should be re-aligned 3/4" left of frame CL.
Transmission, TC, crossmember, transmission tunnel etc.

Quote   I will never take the jeep on the highway, and it is unlikely that I will rock craw at all with it.
I would estimate the Dauntless to be overkill considering those needs.


Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 4:11pm
"the T90 does not offroad well"

Trying to decide if I'm offended by this or not.  Smile
Stan
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52 M38 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 52 M38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 4:18pm
Where you are, the offroading is very different.

Edited by 52 M38 - 19 Mar. 2019 at 5:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 5:27pm
I’m thinking about this as well. I have a kubota engine at home already.  I don’t like the kubota because it does not idle as low as a v6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 52 M38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by chasendeer chasendeer wrote:

 I don’t like the kubota because it does not idle as low as a v6.
 
With a heavier flywheel it will, there are a few different conversion kits I have seen, one offered two different flywheel weights, 28 and 48.  The reason the Jeep Dauntless idles so low is its flywheel weighs slightly less than Rhode Island.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 5:50pm
I'm curious, what kubota motor are you referring to? Is there a T90 adapter available for it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Freedom21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by 52 M38 52 M38 wrote:

... its flywheel weighs slightly less than Rhode Island.

Sorry to interrupt, but that is hilarious.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AKoller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 6:59pm
I have the Dauntless in mine. I like the performance real well. I didn't think the swap was overly difficult to do either. I am still running the T90. My next project is to install the TerraFlex low gears in the D18 to get the crawl ratio where i want it. I did have trouble with the factory Willys radiator cooling it. It constantly ran 210-235 degrees. I have since replaced the radiator with one from Summit. I have never seen it over 185 degrees since and most of the time it runs 160 degrees.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by ndnchf ndnchf wrote:

I'm curious, what kubota motor are you referring to? Is there a T90 adapter available for it?

Jay


Edited by chasendeer - 19 Mar. 2019 at 10:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 10:00pm
MY vote is for VW TDI! Here is mine... Its lighter than the 134, It makes 120hp/200tq makes usable power from 1000-4000rpm. idles at 900rpm gets 38mpg. My buddy has done a similar swap with his 2a... he used a TDI that was a few years older than mine and it was a very simple swap. no firewall mods. Makes roughly the same numbers as mine. Im running the t90 with an overdrive right now.... Im in the middle of a t18 4-speed swap. No one makes a kit for this.....but its not that hard.... 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 10:13pm
The issue is with the crawl speed will go way up on the diesel combo. If a odd fire will crawl around 600 rpm and the diesel is around 1000 rpm even with the heavy fly wheel. I have spoke to Ken at Kubota swappers about a low idle and he said it will not run smooth even with the 48 lb flywheel.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 10:50pm
I can’t speak for the kubota guys but the tdi will crawl smoothly at 900rpm.....the electronics help with that. Once I get the 4-speed installed (82:1 crawl) it won’t matter anyway. Haha! My flywheel is 32lbs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenlakesgary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 11:24pm
I'm happy with my Kubota V2203 DI conversion. It idles just a hair under 1000rpms and I top out at 3050rpms. The Jeep has no electronics and once started only needs fuel to run. Fuel economy 32-35 mpg. Swap was not super hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 52 M38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by greenlakesgary greenlakesgary wrote:

The Jeep has no electronics and once started only needs fuel to run. 
That is what draws me to it.  

I drive a TDI daily, awesome engine, very complex and computerized, not what am looking for in my Jeep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 11:51pm
When you swap a tdi if done correctly the electronics are nothing like the cars.  Some people even out manual pumps on them. Mine does have more electronics than a normal willys but it’s very simple stripped down and basic....but if no electronics are what you are after than you want a mechanical diesel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davemacinnh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar. 2019 at 11:57pm
Hands down, the TDi is the way to go. 300lbs and produced 110 hp. Cheap parts if needed at well. The kubota is a dog. Expensive and produced nothing for horse power. If you break something, good luck finding readily available parts. TDI wiring is easy and simple. All said and done, tdi swap is way cheaper than a kubota.  TDI for the win.
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