Pope's 1949 CJ3A - 4.3L, SM465, Dana 18 Swap |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Snave- good question. This is my first swap so bear with me. The 1996+ish "spider" fuel injection system had its challenges. It also requires a 60psi fuel pressure/pump. TBI is simplier, cheaper and more reliable as I've read. That said, the newer Vortec heads have much better flow. So I am combining newer heads with older TBI injection. Now, this also requires a different intake...more to come on that shortly. I am also using a second hand Painless harness and computer (let's see how that work out, ha).
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otto
Member Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Offline Points: 2264 |
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Having been down the tbi path, my opinion is it’s antiquated technology and I think you’ll be leaving a lot on the table going back to the 1980s. The newer system is far better and won’t be any more work than trying to cobble together disparate aftermarket parts. If you stick with an all GM system you’ll have a lot less head scratching later. Get a factory wiring harness so you can diagnose problems using the GM system; without that you’ll be throwing darts in the dark.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Last week I did a little seat work.
And a little novice metal shaping |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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The goal here is corrosion protection and structural integrity, not historical replication.
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Next: manifold issues. If I stuck with the 1996+ fuel injection system I would need to acquire:
$250 in tank fuel pump that produces 60psi $250 new spider injector $550 new wiring harness from Painless or Howell I don't have any junkyards in my area. So don't bother commenting on "just run to the junkyard and grab XYZ...". I don't have the time. I decided to run with the TBI system. It requires lower fuel pressure (15 psi) and is, from what I have read, so easy a caveman can do it. I grabbed a used Painless wiring harness, TBI intake and a bunch of other stuff only to discover that the older TBI intake manifold will not fit on Vortec heads. Bummer. So I needed to invest in a Edelbrock marine intake to fit the TBI on the Vortec heads. This will probably help with horsepower too....or so says the Edelbrock marketing group. Also, I also realized that this might hurt my hood clearance, so I had to try a test fit. Woohoo! I actually welded the motor mounts in the correct spot! This picture demonstrates what 32" tires look like with stock suspension. |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Next came the power steering pump / steering box / manifold / steering shaft issues that a 4.3 swap involves. This was the largest stumbling block in this project as it required lots of looking at the Jeep and drinking beer, staring a bit more, and drinking beer.
In the end, I have 1/4" of the of the mating surface from the 1990's Astro manifold machined off. *Cue the comments about how the manifold with crack and warp here* **NOTE AS OF 12/5/23: I have swapped in a Dana 30 front axle and reverted to putting a standard rotation Saginaw steering box in front of the grill. Using a Ford reverse rotation box inside of the grill adds complication and limits suspension under compression. Readers should also note that I am using Herm's power steering box bracket. I am using BamBam's/Rango's build threads as a loose guide, so that is where this inspiration came. My build, and Jpet's, will confirm that extensive modifications will need to be done to make this arrangement work. It need to be shaved and massaged to fit inside the grill. Would I rather place the steering box in front of the crossmember? It would certainly make this process easier/faster. I happen to enjoy the challenge and like the appearance of the steering box inside the engine comparment. I am sure some readers will have differing opinions. You will notice my crossmember was moved forward a few inches (this jeep did not have a crossmember when I purchased it). By moving the crossmember forward, the pitman arm will have much more clearance from the axle. Edited by Pope891 - 05 Dec. 2023 at 1:07pm |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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I also had to create a plate to hold the power steering pump to the block. This involved some modifications to the stock aluminum bracketry.
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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By creating this custom bracket, I am clocking the power steering pump counter clockwise about 45 degrees.
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Spent the entire Father's Day in the garage. Not bad for my first patch job. Still got some welding to finish and grinding before the surface is ready for the hat channel / paint. This phase of the project gives me an appreciation for skilled fabricators. Body work is not easy.
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Well heck...I filled the transmission and transfer case yesterday and found a few leaks. I'll tighten up some nuts before I tear anything apart. In the meantime, I'm working on the fuel lines and wiring so I can do a test fire soon. After nine months of wrenching, I'd love to hear it roar. Still gotta wait on some parts...
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LuzonRed47
Member Joined: 11 Apr. 2007 Location: Plymouth, MI Status: Offline Points: 842 |
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Pope, please clarify: When did staring at your jeep and drinking beer become a "stumbling block?"
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CJ2A #140275 "Ziggie" (purchased new by my dad in 1947)
ACM #124334 CJ3A windshield, Warn Overdrive 1953 Strick M100 trailer Serial #18253 |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Ha, truer words have never been said my friend.
This is my first build, so I'm learning....a lot. But it's fun. Even with four kids running around, ha. Others may be skilled fabricators, welders or mechanics. I'm just your average family guy with basic tools looking to build something cool.
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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For those of you using Herms' steering conversion kit with a Ford reverse rotation steering box and a Chevy power steering pump; a word to the wise.
My local Napa was useless when it came to making a custom hydraulic hoses. Local hydraulic shops wouldn't touch an "automotive" application with a ten foot pole. I should have told them "it's for my skid steer". Finding a solution to this hose issue was slowing everything down to a crawl. So, after spending too much money, I had to buy adapters for both the steering box and steering pump, then -6 AN hose ends and a hose from Earls. They had the fittings I needed. Are there other options? I'm sure there are. This was my solution. It was actually fun learning how AN fittings work. While expensive, I can now understand their appeal. |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Did some welding this weekend. Boy was it hot. I find that I MUST set deadlines for myself. I don't want to "stall out". I've been doing a lot of family stuff recently, so the momentum for the project slowed a bit in June. Time to get stuff done!
Next: I need to remove the transfer case to solve a leak in between the Advanced Adapters plate and the xfer case. I promised myself "no regrets" so I better fix that leak before I put the body on. Just another delay. What a pain. Brake lines are basically done. I used all nickel copper lines and stainless steel braided hoses...just like a racecar. After working with NiCop lines, I will never use anything else. It's so nice to work with and flare. The cost is nominally more, but they won't corrode. I used a Willwood proportioning valve the rear brakes too.
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nofender
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 10 May 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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Just caught up on your whole build. Nice work! You're going to end up having a sweet ride!! Keep up the good work!
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46 CJ2a rockcrawler
46 CJ2a - 26819 46 Bantam T3c "4366" 47 Bantam T3C - 11800 68-ish CJ5 |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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I’m surprised you had so much trouble at Napa with the PS hose. Our local store made them for me. Our store is more farm oriented though so IDK.
I didn’t see if you finalized you clutch setup or not. What I learned on mine is that there were a couple complications. First GM. never mounted a 4.3 to an SM465. One throw out bearing offered was too short, the other a hair too long. I ended up getting the adjustable one from Novak. I have had to replace it once in 4 years. I’m not sure if Fuzz and Brian had an issue with the T18. I used a slave cylinder from an S10 but I had problems finding a good master. The YJ master worked but it barely had enough volume. I tried one for a full size GM truck but it had too much volume. Eventually the one that worked the best was a late model CJ7. I’m not sure what the years are on round fenders but it’s the last year for CJ. Edited by jpet - 21 July 2020 at 1:10pm |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Thanks! That build of yours is pretty sweet too. I think other members on this forum have many more years of experience compared to me. I think I'm keeping my head above water for now, ha.
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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AN fittings were the way to go with power steering. I'll use them again anytime. I also enjoyed learning how they work...they are pretty nifty. I read about your struggles with a clutch set up. In truth, I've been mimicking your build in many ways. I really liked the way Fuzz had his clutch arranged on Rojo too, very creative! I've already spent money on a hydraulic bellhousing and it's square with the transmission, so *hopefully* I won't have to remove it too soon. Question for you: should the throwout bearing/clutch fork have any "play" in it. I know on your build you had some wiggle before the throwout bearing was engaged. Did the Novak adjustable bearing close that gap? **Edit January 2021 - Flywheel is LUK LFW383. Clutch is LUK 04-064. Clutch slave cylinder is LUK LSC117. Clutch master is LUK LMC134. I used the throwout bearing that came with the clutch.
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