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L134 or Pinto |
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m38mike 
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Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3798 |
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 Posted: 18 Oct. 2019 at 8:02am |
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I've been running a Pinto 2.0L engine in my Blue Mule for over 20 years. Unless you're building up your Jeep to do extreme trails, then I would vote for installing an L134. That's my 2 cents worth.
Edited by m38mike - 18 Oct. 2019 at 8:15am |
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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m38mike
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Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3798 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2019 at 8:13am |
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I've been running a Pinto 2.0L for over 20 years in my Blue Mule. For going down the highway the L134 can't touch it. Between higher HP and higher RPM curve they were made to run. However, with a carburator they could be a problem off road. When I would get bouncing over rocks the fuel splashing out of the bowl vent in the carb would flood the two barrel intakes and I'd have to race the engine to keep it from stalling. I solved that problem by going with EFI. Since doing that, when the EFI is running right I find that I have plenty of power from 900 rpm thru 4000 rpm. Far more power than my L134 ever had. But to install the Pinto 2.0L I had to do some mechanical changes. I was able to put the block in the same position the L134 block was in, so I used the same motor mounts although I had to customize some motor mount adapters. Because the mechanical fan did not line up with the radiator I had to go with an electric fan. I did not use an adapter between the Ford bell housing and the T90. I just drilled 3 more holes for bolts to mate the T90 tabs to the Ford bell housing. That made the input shaft the right length to use the Ford pressure plate with a Willys clutch plate. But doing the mate up like that forced me to move the T90 and T18 forward almost 3 inches. I didn't have to cut the firewall to get the engine in, but I had to move the Tranny support forward. I had to notch the tranny support on the driver side. And because I moved the t18 forward I had to shorten the front drive shaft and lengthen the rear drive shaft. I'd recommend having a shop do that work. You want the welds to be strong, and the cuts to be accurate. Then the shafts need to be balanced and trued or you'll have a serious vibration all the time. Moving the T90 and T18 forward also requires some body work to get the tranny cover cut and redone so the sticks will come up in a hole in the cover, or the floor panel. I also had to build a custom throttle linkage to connect the gas pedal with the Pinto throttle.
Why did we put the Pinto 2.0L engine in? Because my Dad wanted an engine that would breath better at 12,000 feet than the L134. We considered a V6 instead but he decided he didn't want the extra horsepower. Back then I didn't know the little things that one could do to make sure the L134 would run well at 12,000 or 13,000 feet. But having run the Fall Color Tour for over a decade, and taking stock engines above 12,000 feet regularly, I would say that keeping the L134 for most jeeping is a smart choice. If you're going to do some extreme Jeeping then perhaps a bigger engine would be good. But for most Jeeping the L134 does just fine. If you build one up, with a correctly cleaned and adjusted carb, and tuned correctly for elevation, you should be able to get your L134 to pull the Jeep up to 60 mph. But you may have a problem pulling a trailer at that speed.
Edited by m38mike - 18 Oct. 2019 at 8:17am |
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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Oilleaker1
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Joined: 06 Sep. 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Status: Offline Points: 4412 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2019 at 11:23am |
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I own and run both the L and F 134 Willys engines and have watched both Mike and Tom's pintos in action. Any of the 3 in good shape that run and idle correctly will work for you. The Lhead fits under the hood better for a 2A or 3A. The taller F head was designed for the early M38A1 and CJ3B. It has around 10 extra HP over the Lhead. The Pinto has even more HP. It will pull better going down the highway, but idles too fast for slow 4 wheeling. Assuming stock Jeep gearing. The F head will bolt in, but you must pay attention to the front motor plate mounting ears. 2a both face rearwards, 3a and 3B the driver side faces forward. Different frame motor mounts. Pinto, you are going to make your own. I have found it much easier to just bolt in factory designed parts and drive it. Willys Overland spent time developing the Jeeps they produced and they picked the stroke and size to work with their transmissions and gear ratios. Hard to beat a old Willys for all around application. My only wish was for more horse power out of the L134. A Supersonic Henry J head will bolt on a L134 and give it 10 more HP. It has less cc squish area and raises the compression. You should be able to get parts easier for the Willys engines than a Pinto. It's all your decision. Final note: the sound of the fan on a Willys engine is pure Jeep.
( A Fhead has carburator clearance issues under a low hood model) Edited by Oilleaker1 - 18 Oct. 2019 at 11:25am |
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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Terry Fairchild
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Joined: 08 Nov. 2005 Location: Towanda, Pa Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2019 at 12:06pm |
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I have a 1998,2300 Ranger motor,with fuel injection in my 48 CJ2. Works great.
After I got it streetable the first thing I had to do was replace the 60 mph speedometer. The second thing I had to do was install 11” brakes on the thing. Keeping the original 5:38 gears, this Jeep can more than keep up with traffic because of the higher rpm produced by the OHC Ford engine. It also works great for off roading and slow poke mountain road riding. This Jeep often sits for extended periods( months) and will start with simply turning the key and hitting the start button as a result of the electronic engine control. Having had a slew of Jeeps in the past 50 years, I have had more than my share of engine swaps( Chevy 6 and V8, Buick V6) but this Ford Ranger swap , in my opinion, is the best working swap I’ve ever done. I have had lots of Jeeps with the 134,both L and F, and in good trim they are neat little motors( I have a bone stock, 53 CJ3B) there is no comparison to the fuel injected,electronic controlled, modern engine technology. I have several L 134 motors and had given thoughts to getting one rebuilt and swapping the Ranger motor out, simply to put my 48 back to all original, BUT I just recently finished installing an L 134, that had been professionally rebuilt,in a customers Jeep and although it started and ran well it just doesn’t have the same get up and go that my 48 does. So my opinion, for what it’s worth, find a F.I. Ranger motor, get a Novak adapter and never look back!
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Terry Fairchild
48 CJ 2 W/ 2300 Ranger engine 53 CJ3B 55 Pickup 62 Wagon W/258 AMC engine 67 CJ5 V-6 51 Ford F1 w/ 3.0 Ford V6 69 Jeepster Commando 72 MGB 65 Cobra replica |
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cpt logger
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Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
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Posted: 18 Oct. 2019 at 6:22pm |
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OK, I will chime in here. I have never had a CJ with a Pinto engine. But, (there is always a but), I drive a 1972 Pinto Ranchero daily. My good friend, Alf, made this out of a station wagon. It has the 2.0L engine in it. It always starts & runs well. It is a bit anemic here in the Colorado Rockies. It will go down the freeway at 65 MPH, not 70. For short bursts it will go 80. Keep in mind this 2.0 is tired! It has over 200K on it, sooo.... If, or when, this engine bites the dust, I will replace it with either the 2.3 four banger, or one of the V-6s that will bolt up to the transmission. The 2.3 is readily available, it is still used in many industrial applications. So far, getting parts for the 2.0 has not been an issue. IME, Ford still supports these engines. Heck, sometimes the parts I need are cheaper from Ford than they are online. If I had a flat fender CJ that was missing the engine, my top choice would be the Buick V-6. I had one in a Willys pickup & I loved it. Plenty of torque & amazing amounts of power at high RPM, yet it still needs an overdrive for freeway use. After that in this order, it would be the F head 4 cylinder, the L head 4 cylinder, either of the Willys 6 cylinders, to include the Studebaker Champion Six. All of these should bolt up to the bellhousing except perhaps the Studebaker, but its bellhousing will bolt up to the Willys transmission, at least it did on the Willys Wagon I put one in. Of course what I have on hand at the time would influence my decision. I would entertain the idea of any of the V-6s that have electronic ignition. Fuel Injection is nice as well. IHTH, Cpt Logger. PS. If money is no object, or I had one on hand, a four cylinder diesel engine would be nice. I have always wondered how a VW 1900 normally aspirated diesel engine would do in a Willys. |
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Oldpappy
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4921 |
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Posted: 19 Oct. 2019 at 1:48pm |
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The Dauntless V6 is a fairly simple conversion.
It was over 30 years ago so may have forgotten some things, but I remember replacing the input shaft on the T90 with the longer one from the truck or wagon, and seems like all I had to do was drill some holes in the bell housing.
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BDouglas
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Joined: 10 Aug. 2018 Location: Silas, Alabama Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 3:20pm |
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Mike, can you elaborate on this statement? “Back then I didn’t know the little things that one could do to make sure the L134 would run well at 12,000 or 13,000 feet.” What are the little things that you can do to make an L 134 run better at 12 or 13,000 feet? Or is that discussion somewhere else on the forum? |
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Billy
1949 CJ3A |
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tamnalan
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Joined: 08 Oct. 2013 Location: Port Orford, OR Status: Offline Points: 991 |
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 3:54pm |
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Are the Dauntless motors still easy to find parts for?
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Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD" 1943 MB - "Lt Bob" 1950 cj3a M-100 x2 teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740 |
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 4:03pm |
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In my opinion not bad for parts.
But getting hard to locate genuine OEM original parts from that era. After building 2 with OEM parts I have some extra valve train parts. In case I need to build a 3rd one. Ha Ha Ha !
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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TERRY
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Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3401 |
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 4:49pm |
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Advance timing 1 degree for each 1000 feet of elevation above sea level. I live at 6000' and just leave timing at 10-11 degrees advanced and have no trouble at higher elevations.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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Bruce W
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Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9653 |
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 5:49pm |
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I think that the best thing you can do to overcome the shortage of power at high altitudes is to get used to it. I know it seems awful when you flatlanders come up here and feel the difference in your jeep, but there is really very little you can do about it, and you will never get it all back. It's just a fact of nature. Those of us who live up here are used to it, it's always this way, and we don't know anything different. We live with it, and go on. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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jeepsterjim
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Joined: 13 July 2011 Location: lincoln, ca Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2019 at 1:54am |
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[QUOTE=Ol' Unreliable]If you don't get a Go-Devil, get a Buick V-6. Or a Dauntless V-6. Okay, they're almost the same thing. They're excellent choices for the application.
[/QUOTE X2-----or a 252 v-6-----225's big brother-----either are great motors
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Jim
CJ-2A - 81299 |
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64CJ5
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Sponsor Member Joined: 15 Nov. 2013 Location: NE Wyoming Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2019 at 2:30am |
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Previous owners of our M38 had hacked the firewall and cut out the frame motor mounts to get a chevy 350 in. A 2300 Pinto engine was available and Novak was instermantal getting the engine in. Would I go the same way again? Probably not. But it was and is an experience. I had help from my neighbor Dan ,"Huckleberry", his engine stand and engine lift. Also Oilleaker and M38Mike. Many helpers make for an easy task.
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64CJ5 "Eeyore"
01TJ "Tigger" 52 M38 Severely demilitarized, "Popeye" The Coast Guard Jeep. 14 JK "Jake" To Trust Government Defys Both History and Reason. PUBLIC LAND Owner/User |
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