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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Posted: 14 Dec. 2019 at 12:02am |
Did all Cj2A-2As come from the factory with front and rear top bow brackets and the side mounted top bow storage brackets? And did they all have factory mounted spare tires on the side? Thanks
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Mike in AZ
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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Yes, yes, and yes. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Thank you. Just wondering why quite a few “fully restored” jeeps are missing some, if not all. Guess it’s the interpretation of “fully restored”
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Mike in AZ
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Richard J
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2012 Location: AZ. Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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I don't know for sure Bruce but I had a old timer in his late eighty's tell me originally the early cj2a only
had the half cab soft top. He owned state wide 4 wheel drive in phoenix az. and I've dealt with since the mid 1980's Earl has since retired.
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Richard
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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Half-cab or full top, the top was an option, but every CJ2-A made came with the pockets behind the seats for the forward bows, the pockets welded to the rear corners for the rear bows, and the bow storage pockets on the side. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Hiker
Member Joined: 16 Dec. 2018 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 80 |
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Weren't there storage "clips" for some part of the bows on the windshield frame? I'm working on my '47 and would like to put it back to stock. I have no bows, but then someday I hope to have some canvas up there.
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Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Ol' Unreliable is kinda beat up on the rear corners, but I can't see any evidence there ever were pockets for a rear top bow there. This Jeep never had a rear seat--the holes for the clips for the two back legs were never fully punched out--so it wouldn't have come from the factory with a rear top bow and thus no need for pockets back there. If some Bubba (besides me) cut those pockets off, he did it cleanly but he didn't make any other mods cleanly, so I can't swear to it but I don't think they were ever there.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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In the Parts List, in Group 31-07--Side and Rear Panels, Model CJ-2A:
663089 BRACKET, top bow, front, left, assembly 663090 BRACKET, top bow, front, right, assembly 663679 BRACKET, top bow, rear, left, assembly 663680 BRACKET, top bow, rear, right, assembly This is right after the bow storage brackets, both LH and RH mounting. This is in the "normal" part of the parts book, where parts that ALL CJ-2A's had, not optional or special equipment, is found. In the SPECIAL EQUIPMENT section, where optional parts and equipment are found, in Group 35-10--Rear Body Top, Model CJ-2A is found the rear top and all of the attaching parts for it, including bows and footman loops. There are no bow brackets or pockets or anything of the type in this group. It says, "Installation of Rear Body Top Kit can be made only in conjunction with the Front Body Top Kit. This tells us that there are things in the Front Top Kit that are necessary to the installation of the Rear Top Kit. In Group 35-17--Front Body Top--Model CJ-2A is found the front top and all of the parts needed to install it, including bows, footman loops, hinges, rods, etc. but there are no bow brackets or pockets or anything of the kind in there either. This tells us that the bow pockets, or brackets as they call them, are already on the body and not needed in either of these kits. The vast majority of the CJ2-A's that I have seen, as well as all 6 of them in my collection, have those parts in place or show evidence of them being removed (or rusted off). If they had had to be installed at the time of the top installation, I would expect to see some fine examples of bow brackets Bubba-welded on, as well as bolted, screwed or riveted on. I've never seen any of that. Ol' Unreliable, if I remember correctly, is a CJ3A, and may be different, the PO's question was about CJ2-A's. And after looking, no bow pockets or brackets are listed in the Special Equipment Parts Groups for the CJ3A either. Not everybody who worked on a jeep in the past was Bubba, there were a great many craftsmen extant at that time, who did nice work and took pride in what they did. Lots of rear-corner bow brackets have been removed or altered, and it's not impossible for some of them to have been done cleanly. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Ol' Unreliable is a 2A, going by the length of the rear wheelwells, and the fact it's a Lefty. Bubba might very well have removed the pockets cleanly, but they should have been left on. The back corners got beaten up a lot and the pockets would have helped prevent that. Bruce, do you have any 2As that never had the rear seat installed?
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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Oh, that's right, a Lefty, not a 3A. Sorry 'bout that. Everything I've seen indicates that any 2a without any or all of the bow brackets had them when it left the factory, and they've been removed since then. I try to do good research on things like this, and in this case, the Parts List is the best reference resource I have. It takes a bit of detective work, but I enjoy it.
Only one of my CJ2-A's has a rear seat at the present, but I'm not sure how many of the others have had one at one time or another. I could check them and see if any of them still have the knockouts in the floor. Another bit of info for the PO and others, that many here are already aware of: A lot of reproduction, so-called "CJ2-A" bodies made in the past, and maybe some in the present, do not have the bow brackets behind the seats or on the rear corners, or the storage pockets on the side. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Now I have to wonder about the soft top I have. I have seen many soft tops that are relieved in the rear corners to go around the top bow pockets/brackets but I have seen many that are not. Mine is a Kayline and it is not relieved and the instructions for mounting it don't mention removal of the pockets. I don't think it would be possible to put on my top if the pockets were still there.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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Almost all of the CJ2-A's I have seen that had the rear bow pockets either completely or partially removed, probably had that done because of aftermarket tops. Why the tops were not made with a relief in the corner, I cannot say, maybe an MB was used as a pattern, but I'm pretty sure that Willys-Overland and American Central Machine were not concerned about what Kayline or BesTop might do in the future. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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I would be more inclined to believe the "fully restored" jeeps that you are seeing are in fact using repop body kits that do not come with top brackets unless they buy and install them.
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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I'm with ya on this. "Fully restored" doesn't mean the exact same thing to everyone.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Steelyard Blues
Member Joined: 09 Oct. 2017 Location: Reno, NV Status: Offline Points: 1497 |
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X2 on that. I do concours shows with an old Jag. When you get knocked off points for not having the correct finish on the correct stamped bolts in the correct location you get a better understanding for the term "Fully Restored" Drives me nuts when I see that term so loosely thrown around.
Micah
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1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981 1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577 |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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‘ “Fully Restored" Drives me nuts when I see that term so loosely thrown around‘
Me too, and then there’s “rebuilt”. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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