Death wobble |
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General Eisenhower
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 24 Aug. 2018 Location: DE Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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Posted: 06 Apr. 2020 at 3:53pm |
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Ok all, so I have the bearing coming in today, but I may not need them at all. With the help of my uncle the problem seemed to reside with the bell crank. When applying pressure to the wheel, it caused the bell crank to torque a little wonky, so we tightened it up and so far no problems, I will test again today to see if it shows up. But I seemed to have found the solution
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I Like Ike!
1948 CJ2a "Hefty Horse" 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2016 Jeep JKU 75th anniversary edition |
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WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
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I had a death wobble on one of mine more than a few years back and trying to remember what the cause of it and last night it finally came to me. It was a broken main leaf on the right hand spring right in front of the axle housing spring perch. I cant remember it ever doing it again after I fixed the spring. Jim
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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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Greaser007
Member Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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General,
You've got it ! Hit a bump and BOOM Death Wobble full lock back and forth - it feels ! On page 1 of this Thread, Bill hit on the nail-head. The wobble is a combination of all of the slop in all of the components including frame twist allowable and shackle side-ways play or flex (rubber bushings). We must remember that the drag link has Springs in it, which can be part of the loosie-goosie wobble contributor once the Wobbles begin. Hang-On !! I had just converted a '77 Ford F-350 long-bed crew cab pickup from 2wd to 4wd and was sprinting up the expressway with a big smile ! UNTIL I hit a badger hole, and General, all I saw behind me was a dust cloud from those two front tires and wheels flopped back and forth like you say ! Scared the heebie-geebies out of me, and that was with a Dana 60 high pinion axle assembly too. Much heavier than your little Willys. The solution was to install a removable Pan Hard Rod from driver's side frame rail to passenger side spring-to-axle-tube mount. Once those wobble gyrations begin it is very scary at 55-mph. Don Garlits once said "you cannot expect to win a race unless you disassemble each component for a thorough inspection to know what you have." General, you cannot safely drive that vehicle until you have disassembled, clean inspected and replaced all moving components in that steering system. You can also tighten-up the specs for how much effort is required to rotate each knuckle assembly after you shim the bearings. Mid-'70's Dana 44 front knuckles have an adjusting nut to adjust drag. In ending, General, to cure the wobbles on my F-350, I modified a pan hard rod from a '78 full sized Ford Bronco and installed it, and NO-MORE-WOBBLES. All components of the entire steering and axle assemblies were rebuilt and a hydraulic steering damper. There was just too much sideways play in the suspension and frame twist combined. And that is an F-350 frame. A note: I put cross-over steering on an earlier '46 2a, and a Saginaw PS box and could cruise down the expressway at 65-mph and 32-inch tires with one finger and no wobbles or such. And that little L-134 was humming cheerfully at 3,750 rpms. I felt very safe. You'll get it all sifted out. My senses tell me you are hoping to solve the steering keeping all pieces in stock form. Like I mentioned, you may consider a bolt-in panhard rod, but this is something that you will have to fabricate with your selection of components. If it were me, I would utilize what ever stock rod ends you can use which have enough pin rotation for the articulation desired. What I would do is to go pluck a pan-hard rod off of a donor late model SUV and modify it to fit your application, because pan-hard rod ends tend to have more movement (back and forth) than a standard tie-rod end. I think the data plate recommended max. speed is 40-mph. Jpet mentioned a set of fresh tires can have a beneficial effect too. Looks like you are in for a few more skinned knuckles to Fix Steering. |
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Mike in AZ
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General Eisenhower
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 24 Aug. 2018 Location: DE Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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So there is no speed at which it starts, just hits a bump, usually I'm going around 15 to 25 just to keep it safe. But it's a bump that I can roll over and it starts the wobble. The wheel doesn't move much when I'm holding it, but I feel the vibration of it fighting a little
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I Like Ike!
1948 CJ2a "Hefty Horse" 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2016 Jeep JKU 75th anniversary edition |
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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I wonder if more of a description of the symptoms of your “death wobble” might be helpful. What speed does it happen? You say the steering wheel doesn’t move cause you’re holding it but the wheels move thru their turning radius? I’ve not experienced the death wobble or shimmy without the steering wheel shaking. Thanks
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Mike in AZ
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rocnroll
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Not really.....the General just asked two posts above Stev's answer whether anybody knew if they would fit.. |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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General Eisenhower
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 24 Aug. 2018 Location: DE Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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Ok so I do have a manuel, hard copy infact! I was hoping for the bare minimum of things I'd need. I will keep y'all posted when I get to it. While some have gone unemployed my warehouse has shifted into maximum overdrive and I'm on standby with the guard.
Know a time frame so I can kinda plan on a window to work on it?
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I Like Ike!
1948 CJ2a "Hefty Horse" 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2016 Jeep JKU 75th anniversary edition |
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Oilleaker1
Member Joined: 06 Sep. 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Status: Offline Points: 4412 |
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Put a block of wood next to a front wheel jacked up until clear of the floor and spin the wheel with your hand and watch the run out. A wobbly/bent wheel will sure start the death wobble even if all the bearings are new. Put the wobbly one on the rear or spare mount.
All the above is correct. When you bolt on the caps for the knuckle bearings, pay attention to the two longer bolts that go through the hose brush guards. If the bolt goes through too far it wrecks your brand new expensive knuckle bearing cages. As BW said, some bozo most likely used a chisel on your outer bearing hex nuts. New ones with a correct socket to tighten is a pleasure. The nut sets with new washers are cheap. Welcome to the Knuckle party! Oilly
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4785 |
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Lol... order "everything" 70yo jeeps are great, but they're 70yo. They come to us generally from many different POs, uses, levels of neglect and maintenance.... most have no baseline. Most people I know don't think twice about getting a new ride and changing all the fluids. It's investigatory, it's a starting point... it's a baseline. You know where you are. Death wobble is a tough one to diagnose because there can be so many contributing factors, sometimes a single cause, most times not. I'm not suggesting you need to rebuild everything from the horn button to the driven plates, but my advice is to rebuild things you have no history on, and to do it in such a way that you aren't disassembling stuff you just took apart to try the next thing (don't replace wheel bearings only to be doing king pins a week later). Order everything you need to rebuild a knuckle and establish a baseline where you know it's good. If you're going to redo the bellcrank, get the kit for the draglink too, and so on. Tie rod ends, do them all. Yes, you'll maybe spend a little more in parts, but that'll come back to you ten fold in saved time... and baseline.
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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jeepsterjim
Member Joined: 13 July 2011 Location: lincoln, ca Status: Online Points: 1283 |
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I agree with Bruce and Mark. Replacing bearings and seals is darn cheap insurance. Do check the bell crank as well. I have experienced the death wobble in more than one 2A and had the steering go out twice. Also experienced the brakes going out twice. This is why I am going to a D-30 NT diff with Saginaw steering and disc brakes with dual M/C.
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Jim
CJ-2A - 81299 |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9652 |
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First off, you're gonna need a copy of the Service Manual For Universal Jeep Vehicles. You do already have one, right? You will need four bearing cones and four cups. Two on each side and the upper and lower are the same. You may need knuckle bearing shims, so get a set. You will probably need new knuckle (ball) seals. If you have not cleaned and re-packed the wheel bearings then this is a good time to do it and you'll need two new hub seals. If you don't pack them, you'll still need two seals. If it has been a long time since this has been done, you may need new bearings (cones and cups). Inner and outer are the same, two per side. If one is bad, replace them both. You'll probably find that Bubba has used a chisel to loosen/tighten the wheel bearing nuts, so you'll need two new sets. You'll also need a proper socket so you will not become Bubba. When you go to disconnect the tie rod ends, you may find that they are worn, or you may destroy them getting them loose. If one is bad, replace all 4. You will need an ample supply of the lube of your choice, be it chassis grease, corn head grease, CV joint grease, your favorite "knuckle pudding" recipe, or whatever. You may not be able to get the "S" brake lines loose from the hose and/or the wheel cylinder without damaging them, so you may need them. When you pull the hubs/drums off, you may find that the brake shoes are worn out or soaked with oil/grease or brake fluid. If you replace the shoes, replace the wheel cylinders too. Then when this is all done, you can check the rear brakes and we'll start a new list. So, you see, it can go on and on. Before you're done, you'll probably have the back seat out (old mechanic's joke). If you want to hope for the best and order the bare minimum that you will surely need, I would say bearings, shims, knuckle seals, hub seals, lube. And the Service Manual. Keep us posted, let us know how it goes, so I can say "Wha'd I say?" (another old mechanic's joke). BW Oh, yeah, the MB bumperettes will fit, but you'll need to drill some holes and get rid of the ag hitch if you have one.
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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General Eisenhower
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 24 Aug. 2018 Location: DE Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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Sure, I agree. But still what parts would I need to replace if I tore it apart. I don't want to take it apart and wait a week because I didn't order something
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I Like Ike!
1948 CJ2a "Hefty Horse" 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2016 Jeep JKU 75th anniversary edition |
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
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This is just my way of looking at the two things that will kill you the fastest in a vehicle. Steering and brakes. FIX OR REPLACE EVERYTHING BUT THE NON SERVICEABLE PARTS Edited by Mark W. - 31 Mar. 2020 at 3:05am |
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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cpt logger
Member Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Online Points: 3043 |
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Steve, I think that you posted about the bumperettes in the wrong thread.?!
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2391 |
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MB bumperettes will fit on a CJ2A frame. You just have to drill holes for them.
EDIT : So much for double tasking.
Edited by Stev - 31 Mar. 2020 at 3:18pm |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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TERRY
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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You may need knuckle to ball seals if yours can't be reused, and if you repack wheel bearings you will need those seals.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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General Eisenhower
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 24 Aug. 2018 Location: DE Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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So I am gonna dig into the kingpin bearings and see what's happening in there.
Can anybody tell me the parts I'd need to replace, like seals etc before I do it, so I can order them, thanks. Does anybody know if MB bumperettes would fit on a cj2a rear bumper?
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I Like Ike!
1948 CJ2a "Hefty Horse" 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2016 Jeep JKU 75th anniversary edition |
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