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Sanity Check, D44 Full Floater

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jpet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2020 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by Anvil Anvil wrote:

.... Could be difference in the "in cup width."  .040" difference between the 45 & 47
I think that is insignificant. There is way more that .04 worth of adjustment in the nut and you can make the spindle .04 longer .... or I can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2020 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Originally posted by Anvil Anvil wrote:

.... Could be difference in the "in cup width."  .040" difference between the 45 & 47
I think that is insignificant. There is way more that .04 worth of adjustment in the nut and you can make the spindle .04 longer .... or I can.
Agreed, in this case .040" may well not matter, but I haven't messed with it, and it would be good to hear from Metcalf about his experience with it and why he felt the hub body mod was necessary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rick G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2020 at 11:40pm
I’m currently in this very dilemma myself.  I have been comtemplating every conceivable permutation to this problem for the last 3 weeks.  I’m going to have to make a decision in the next week if I have any chance at jeeping this Summer.

I have been running Herm’s 30 x 27 spline FF D44 axles for about 5 years and I broke both of them in one day back in October.  Those particular axles have a design flaw, but they stood up to a lot of wheeling in those 5 years.  Nonetheless, I don’t want this to happen again.  I’d like to have the flanged floating axles like Brennan, but there’s this spindle problem Confused

My spindles use the 1.625” bearing for both inner and outer.  Interestingly enough, my spindle bore is 1.272”.  My tab groove is 0.055”.  My particular 30 spline axle ends measure 1.290”, not the 1.310” that I thought was the published diameter.  For those that actually have 30 spline axles, what is you actual diameter?

So with my 1.272” spindle bore and my 1.290” 30 spline axle diameter, I would only have to bore the spindle about 0.025” to obtain clearance, which would reduce wall thickness by only about 0.013”.  This reduction would not cut thru my tab groove.  BUT....my question is:  Is a spindle wall thickness of approximately 0.160” sufficient to wheel the Rubicon, Moab, Sand Hollow, et al?  I think probably it would be ok, but I’m afraid to rely on that.  If that spindle breaks, you better have another one just like it to get off the trail.  If a FF axles breaks, you can just keep driving.  Either way I decide, I’m planning on having spares.

Jeff’s idea is very interesting to me.  Having two “large” I.D. bearings would alleviate the spindle thin wall worries, but would they need to be heat treated?  Can you do that or have it done, Jeff?  And how much would they cost?  I would rather have them made like this, than to use a disc brake, large bore, D30 spindle, which is the way to go right now if you want to bore them.

Anyway, let’s keep this discussion going.  I think there is definitely a market for these large spindles, but I just don’t know how big it is.  Currently, I’m leaning towards Dutchman just making a set of 30 x 27 FF axles from their Hy-Tuf alloy and just carrying spares axles, but I’m open to options...

Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2020 at 11:48pm
My spindles are not heat treated. I'm not sure what type of steel they are made of. If we can settle on a design and material, I'd be willing to make some. Things are super slow at work right now.

Edited by jpet - 27 Mar. 2020 at 11:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2020 at 11:52pm
Potential candidates:

Dana 44 for 74 to 76 Jeep Wagoneer disc brake front & 73 to 76 Chev/GMC D44 front.  Claims a 1.3" spindle bore.  G dimension is 1.125" longer than Jeep Dana 30 disc front spindle.  Uses same bearings as D30 Jeep.  Currently available new on Ebay for $90.


Dana 44 for 73-75 Bronco, F100/F150.  Claims a 1.3" bore.  G dimension is .9375" longer than Jeep Dana 30.  All else is the same.  Ford hubs of that era also use the 5 on 5.5 lug pattern.  Available new from GXL and resellers for $73 & free shipping.


Dana 35 for Ford.  This is an interesting option.  Appears to use the Set47 bearings as inner and outers.  G dimension is .875" shorter than the D30.  Don't know about hub compatibility. 


Also been looking at Toyota spindles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Rick G Rick G wrote:

My spindles use the 1.625” bearing for both inner and outer.  Interestingly enough, my spindle bore is 1.272”.  My tab groove is 0.055”.  My particular 30 spline axle ends measure 1.290”, not the 1.310” that I thought was the published diameter.  For those that actually have 30 spline axles, what is you actual diameter?
What spindles are those?  Seems odd they'd use the small bearing as the inner too.  I'd be wary of that myself.  I worry less about boring a normal D30 spindle because the inner bearing diameter still gives you almost a .250" wall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 12:25am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

My spindles are not heat treated. I'm not sure what type of steel they are made of. If we can settle on a design and material, I'd be willing to make some. Things are super slow at work right now.
OEM D30 spindles I have don't appear to be heat treated either.  I just shuffled off my machine shop biz and retired so I've no interest in going into spindle production.  If I was to make them, I'd just turn them out of 1018 or 11L17 or 12L14.  You can really rip through 11L17 & 12L14 and if you use the Set47 inner and outers you'd probably never have to worry about breaking them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 12:39am
One other thing I ran across for the feller that has everything.  If you're interested in running a D60 and want to keep your 5 on 5.5 wheel pattern:


Actually, when you look at the cost of converting to disc brake and full floater, it's downright reasonable if you have an excess of horsepower.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 12:44am
I’m not necessarily interested in going into spindle production either but I’d run some just to learn something. Rick and I have been discussing this for a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 1:26am
The yukon spindle used the stock D30 wheel bearings ( later version with a larger INNER bearing only). Stock spindle nuts.
The only difference was that the keyway was cut shallow and it was bored out larger.
I've been running them for 8+ years that way without issue.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 1:31am
So the important question, what is a 30 spline capable spindle worth to people?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 1:38am
If you don't mind an internal style hub.....


Use this spindle ( I am pretty sure it will pass a 30 spline shaft stock )
Turn the back side snout down to fit in the Jeep bearing pocket


Use this 5 on 5.5 bearing hub.

You have a lot of different options for disc brakes, locking hubs, drive flanges, etc.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 1:46am
If I was going to make them, I’d go ahead and make them for 47s both inner and outer then neck them down for the nut with shallow keyway. I’ll draw something up Monday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 2:15am
Originally posted by Rick G Rick G wrote:


I have been running Herm’s 30 x 27 spline FF D44 axles for about 5 years and I broke both of them in one day back in October.  Those particular axles have a design flaw, but they stood up to a lot of wheeling in those 5 years.  Nonetheless, I don’t want this to happen again.  

Anyway, let’s keep this discussion going.  I think there is definitely a market for these large spindles, but I just don’t know how big it is.  Currently, I’m leaning towards Dutchman just making a set of 30 x 27 FF axles from their Hy-Tuf alloy and just carrying spares axles, but I’m open to options...

Rick

Where are Herm's axles made ?
Did he replace them for you ?
Best bet to me is the Dutchman route; you know what you're getting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rick G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 2:39am
Originally posted by flatfender47 flatfender47 wrote:

Where are Herm's axles made ?
Did he replace them for you ?
Best bet to me is the Dutchman route; you know what you're getting.

I spoke to Herm this week.  He said he will warranty them, but only once.  He wouldn’t say who makes them, but he did say it was a major U.S. axle manufacturer and they only make a run of them once per year.  He said they are made from 4340 and have a Rockwell hardness of 57.  I bought mine from him in 2015 and I don’t know if they are the same manufacturer or the same material (4340) as they are now. 

Here are the spindles (1.272” bore) that I’m currently running on my D41 with Herm’s FF 30 x 27 D44 axles:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 11:12am
I've been looking to upgrade the rear axle in X98 since I built it. I really like Metcalf's full-float 30 spline creation. It also allows the same hub, wheel bearings and spindles at all 4 corners. Common parts is good. But I couldn't find the spindles. Every other spindle I could find would have the hub sticking out past the wheel so I finally changed paths. I'm almost done with this D44 high pinion, 35 spline ARB. Just need to get the parking brake cables attached.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 11:45am
Bob
Is it a flanged axel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 12:35pm
Yes, custom alloy Moser Engineering shafts. Sure hope I don't break them with my 72HP F-head and 7.50 x 16 tires, because I won't be carrying any spares.


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