T18 transmission help |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Posted: 10 July 2020 at 3:35pm |
Well I am happy to report that is what the issue is. This morning I did a temporary “fix” on the blocking ring to take up the extra space, which was almost 1/4”. The transmission now works flawlessly. That was an oversight on my end while installing the new rings. I didn’t catch the difference in the gaps. Thanks everyone for the help. Now to tear it back down and fix it permanently.
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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Joe Friday
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 26 Dec. 2010 Location: Jeep Central Status: Offline Points: 3654 |
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Yes, I think you found your problem.
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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I think I stated in an earlier post that the blocking ring should rotate back and forth about 1/4”.
Those definitely don’t appear to be OEM BW blocking rings. At one time I had a bunch of the big OEM rings but have since found them good homes.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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So this problem has been really eating at me. I went and found another transmission and I plan on swapping the adapter to this new transmission and run it. While inspecting the new transmission I found that the blocking ring on the new transmission has a smaller slot than the transmission that’s in the Jeep currently. Could that be the issue?
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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They do help a little. I have a later style T18 and the 2nd gear synchro is different than the earlier transmissions. I will take a look at mine and see if the spring clip can go inside the hub. Thanks again for the pictures
Kevin
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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Greaser007
Member Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Hotrod,
Read back through my comments for clarity. I had my original description of the gears mixed up end for end, and I just did about 10:28 PST, hopefully correct my descriptions, as 1st gear is at the rear. God I get mixed up looking at all those gears and slider stuff. I think mine is the earlier without the rectangular notch on the top plate. I am on a Re-Learn with this. Please bear with me, as I may be off base. And, hopefully these photos may help. Len |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Thank you for the info. Is your transmission and earlier or later style?
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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Greaser007
Member Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Ok,
I just ran out to my shop and looked at my T-18 mainshaft which has not been disassembled by me. YET but it will eventually before 2025 i hope. So, your retainer ring that holds the synchronizer clip things needs to be tucked. In other words, it needs to be inside the hub like Ken (oldtime) mentioned. Same scenario as on the other end at 3rd and 4th. Please see below, and the clips retaining ring is not visible on mine. In the above photo, the notches in the syncro do not line up with notcbes in the slider ring. Nearest I can tell. Ken, help, am I safe to slide the 1st / 2nd slider ring further to the rear of the mainshaft without clips and springs shooting off like a firework display ? in the above photo, we are looking at the round-wire retaining ring for the synchronizer clips that click into a groove to hold the shifting ring in place. This is at the front of the mainshaft assembly and we are looking at 3rd gear inside of the shifting ring. 4th gear, or Direct, is the input gear. I think. Hmm, I don't know if my brain was ever 'crystal-clear', and my wife would be the first to admit it should be scanned for broken Sectars. haha in the above photo, I am comparing my gap to yours between 3rd and 2nd. Yours looks to be correct here. 4th being "direct", is when the 3 / 4 slider ring slips over and engages the input shaft (driven gear). Your 3rd gear syncro is way too far out of the 1st-2nd gear syncro Hub on the mainshaft. Tuck that puppy back in where it is supposed to be. I coulc be all hosed up here, But, i just looked at my T-18 and shifted from 1st (granny) to 2nd (1st in a 3-speed) and i cannot see the clippy retainer ring or the Gap you have. Does this make sense. I would begin with removing the 3$**!!x?%$ clip and remove the 1st gear hub from your mainshaft to investigate why your clip retainer ring is outside of the 1st / 2nd gear Hub. These clips are some of the Toughest I have ever worked with and will cause a preacher to cuss like a Sailor. :) I know, _ _ _ i've heard my Dad cuss, and remarkable proficient. I can attach a photo from just a few minutes ago. I'll see. Good luck and keep us posted of your Misery. We all suffer. I normally get things near correct after the 4-th attempt. Transmissions are so doggon Basic it is almost impossible to hose things up "IF" care is taken on disassembly, unless you are a guru who does this everyday in his sleep. A pro tradesman can do everything by 'feel' in the dark without batting an eye. hahaha The key element is to have "everything" in proper order when assembling the mainshaft assembly. Yep Edited by Greaser007 - 30 June 2020 at 6:37pm |
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Greaser007
Member Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Gosh dang T-18 transmissions, they are a real PIA to work on.
I have one apart currently which has been collecting dust since summer 2019. I am not a transmission man but, I have successfully refurbed many a manual transmission. What I was reading last year in my travels was that with some T-90 sycronizer springs and detents is some aftermarket pieces can Bind-up and may need some custom "Joe-homeowner" massaging for the Syncronizer ring and detents and hub to all work seamlessly. First thing I would do is to ever so carefully get that mainshaft out of the case and Inspect all components for proper orientation. What i have learned in the past converting T-18 and NP-435 transmissions is that we 'need' a puller to disassemble a BW T-18. Not the case with the NP435, which will easily fall apart in your lap. The NP-435 is very User-Friendly for us joe-homeowner wrencher-type's. I have not yet re-assembled my current T-18 so i cannot make any accurate suggestions. I do have One confession: After installing a Novak T-18 kit in my '77 CJ-7 in 1984, and then running the Rubicon jeep trail for the following 18-summers, i pulled the trans to fix a gear-oil leak and pulled the clutch cover to inspect the disc. The clutch disc looked Perfect and the flywheel. I was amazed. This told me that with the 6.32:1 crawler-gearing, the clutch doesn't have to work very hard or need slipping frequently. I'm sold. _ _ or was. _ _ _ until talking with a guy about his rock-buggy and automatic transmission 'benefits'. |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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I will do that. Thank your for the help.
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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Well I’m sure not familiar with the late T18’s but it’s obvious that our low synchronizer hubs and sleeves are notably different.
Apparently your hub is much shorter up at the front end and does not encompass the blocking ring. That seems very strange to me. I can’t think of any other Borg Warner’s made like that. I suggest you get hold of Nickmil (ECJ-5 Forum). Nick has more T18 experience than anyone I know of.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Ok here are a couple of pictures of the trans shifted into low with the shift tower. I have about an 1/8 of an inch from the case. As you can see there is a gap between the gear hub and the brass ring. Everything is tight and there is no slop. The only movement is the rotation of the blocking ring to the synchro plates.
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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I was unable to take my shift tower off with it shifted into low gear.
But I determined that the large sliding gear sets about 1/16” or so just forward of the rear of case. Here yet again you can clearly see that the synchro hub sets right up against the large bronze blocking ring with no gap. NOTE: that the blocking ring can only rotate about 1/4” in either direction because it’s notches are fully engaged to the synchronizer plates. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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I will try and do that Sunday night. We are headed out of town for the weekend. Thanks for the help so far!
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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Well that all looks perfectly normal to me.
The only concern I have is that second pic of yours. No hurry on my end but when you get the time could you shift it into Low gear using the shift tower; then remove the shift tower and take a couple clear view pics of the gear, the synchro and large blocking ring......
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Here are a couple of pictures of the assembly in “neutral”
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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hotrod59
Member Joined: 28 Dec. 2017 Location: Boise, ID Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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My first picture is it in "2nd gear" the 2nd picture is it in "1st gear". I will get out and get a picture in neutral when I get home this evening.
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1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A "SPUDZ" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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