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Lower Transfer Case Gears |
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3A Steve 
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Joined: 10 June 2016 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 880 |
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 Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 12:09am |
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Would be ready to sign up for an advanced buy, just kinda worried about loosing my OD. Can you make a "coupler" to go from your 19 spline to a 26 spline OD? I find myself using my OD in 4 low a lot. With the Terra Low I need the OD to keep up at speed with others with higher gear TCs. Of course I could drop out of low range but that takes longer than flipping the OD in and the OD is very nice in normal highway driving. Love the thought of a 5 vs my 3.15. Would be happy to send you a clean D-18 case if you need one to play with, or some d-18 gears if you need any. Thanks for everything you do for the Flatfender community.
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jeeper50
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 12:17am |
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Great work OB Wan!
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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Bob W
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 12:34am |
X2
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4185 |
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 12:36am |
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3A Steve, The only way to drive the overdrive unit is via the bowl gear.
It would be physically impossible to make a such a small diameter bowl gear. The smallest known bowl gear is the one made to fit the rock eater 3.6 ratio transfer case. Personally I would not consider loosing my OD in lieu of lowered gears. Your only lowered gearing options would be 3.6 rock eaters and the special bowl gear or else the T98 transmission. This pic of a 2.46 and a 3.15 ratio gear should show why it’s physically impossible to drop down to JPets tiny sized mainshaft gear.  |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Barry S
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Joined: 01 Mar. 2020 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 12:51am |
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The equipment is cool but useless unless someone has the skill to make it work and the imagination to invent new stuff. Nice work Jeff!
-Barry
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1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729 194? CJ2A 04893/194304 1946 CJ2A 46745 1946 CJ2A 36723 1945 MB 413665 1971 CJ5 8305017 375392 Drive train parts donor Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487 |
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dasvis
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 1:42am |
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1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty" 1964 Thunderbird convertible ..... & one of them moves under it's own power!! |
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GeorgiaFlattie
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 3:57pm |
Another option would be a T19 with the 4:1 or 5:1 first gear and higher numerically axle gears. A T19 with he 4:1 first gear, JPets 5:1 gears and 4.10 axle gears gives you the same cruising rpm as a T90 with stock D18, 5.38s in the axles and an OD. With a much lower crawl ratio of course.
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4185 |
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 4:07pm |
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Yeah I should have stated any WR 4 speed.
I assume Steve has a 134 engine; so T98-A is easiest to fit. IMHO the NR T19 is really a superior transmission that is best suited when it’s mated to a D20 transfer case.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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GeorgiaFlattie
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 4:12pm |
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It's possible to adapt a T18/T19 to a 134L using the stock bellhousing and some custom machining to the input shaft. If someone is willing to go to the trouble of 5:1 TC gears this process isn't that difficult.
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3A Steve
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Joined: 10 June 2016 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 880 |
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 6:23pm |
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Yes, I have a 134. Recently followed Stan with the T90-C conversion. I thought that with Herm's 3.15 TC that would do. Now, of course, I find I still have to hit rocks pretty hard on rougher trails. That's why Jeff's TC is so appealing if only I could keep my OD. I think the real answer is probably to drive better and accept damage that would have devastated me a couple of years ago. Herm tried to talk me into getting his T98 at the same time I bought the TC, I couldn't think of any reason to spend the extra money. Now if I wanted to get Jeff's new TC I would probably want to change the Trans and maybe the differential gearing. I think I will stay on my current tangent of trying to harden everything I have been damaging and rethink any major changes with the knowledge that the quest for more capability is endless.
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Metcalf
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 8:38pm |
It wouldn't be mainstream, but a ford RTS 4spd trans with OD 4th could be an option. With the new deeper transfer case gears this might work out pretty well. You can't split main gears with them like the transfer case units, but overdrive is still overdrive. |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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3A Steve
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 9:39pm |
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That is worth thinking about. I have 52:1 now. The RTS with a 3.34:1 low and Jeff's 5.0 would get me 87:1 and the overdrive 4th would be just a bit lower than with the O/D. Of course by now I'm not sure that 87:1 will satisfy me for much longer but I certainly think it ought to. Thanks for giving me something to think about.
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jpet
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 10:58pm |
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Thx all for the compliments. The software does most of the work. I’ve learned a lot and I’d like to thank Joe DeYoung for helping me every time I have a question.
First off, the Rockeater 3.6 gears are no longer available, at least at this time. I respect everyone’s appreciation of an overdrive but I’m not too interested in figuring out how to couple one. These gears aren’t for everyone. That being said, ... Just for fun, I’ve done some calculations. The Rockeater 3.6 set is the lowest gear set I know of that works with an OD. These gears will also fit in the case without cutting a hole in it. The helical gear set is 24/47 teeth. I believe them to be 9DP with 20 degree pressure angle and 23 deg helix angle. Here is a drawing comparison:   The spur gear set is a stock 18/33 7DP set. Since 24/47 9 DP helical gears are about as big as you can get and still fit inside the case, plus the pinion is big enough for an OD, the only option to get even lower gearing is to change the spur gears. This is a spread sheet I created that shows every spur gear combination I could think of using stock gear cutters, both DP and module. All of these gear sets have natural center distances of 4.2857 or 4.250. The case is 4.2857 but 4.250 can be used with pinion correction.  ... more |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 11:22pm |
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... The spread sheet has the spur gear sets sorted by lowest ratios (highest number).
The teraflex 3.15 gears has a spur gear set that is 23/45. In theory, If a guy made a set of gears that was 24/47 helical to 23/45 spur, You could have a ratio of 3.83 and it’s a fact that the gears would fit in the case with perhaps some minor grinding on the inside. I don’t have a set of teraflex gears to look at but by my calculation, the slide gear is approximately 5.88 in diameter. The slide gear can’t be more than 6.312 in diameter before is collides with the intermediate gear which has a center of 2.250. The slide gear would not collide with the shift rod so long as it is less than 6.487 diameter. The problem is the case. I haven’t accurately measured it yet but it looks like a slide gear is getting pretty close to the case wall around 6” diameter. I need to spend more time on this. If you look at my spread sheet, you will see there is an 21/47 set that has a slide gear of 6.13 diameter. That could probably be made smaller with some pinion enlargement. 47/24 helical * 47/21 spur is 4.38:1. This would fit inside the case and potentially take an OD. If the case could be ground enough to accept a 6.29 diameter gear, the 18/42 spur gear set could be used which would have a 4.57 ratio. Reaching for the stars, if the case could accept a 6.38 diameter spur gear, the combo would be (49/19)*(47/24) or 5.05:1. A 6.38 diameter slide gear would only fit if you cut some off of the center of the intermediate gear. Edit: it should be noted that the spur gears are the weak link in the case and the larger the ratio, the weaker they get. The 23/45 7 DP is what teraflex uses and that is proven. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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3A Steve
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Joined: 10 June 2016 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 880 |
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Posted: 03 Dec. 2020 at 11:53pm |
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Jeff, I think an overdrive transmission would be a good alternative to an overdrive. I used my O/D a lot in 4 low the 2nd year I was at the Fall Colors Tour. It jammed shortly afterwards and I sent it back to Herm. A couple of months later I got it back for a $113 bill. Cheap enough but still left me being more cautious
using it later. So far no problems. But if I could get your 5.0 tc with a durable O/D transmission that would be great. I could probably sell the tera low and the t90c to offset the cost. Keep at it and thanks for being a "guiding light" for flat fenders. Like my oldest son said after Rousch Creek, "he (you) is the kung-fu master of jeeping".
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jpet
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Posted: 06 Dec. 2020 at 9:58pm |
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Steve,
Maybe you should consider using a T90-A with these gears. I’m not speaking from experience but from what I’ve read, and talked to others about, the biggest complaint for the T90-C is highway driving and the gap between gears, especially the gap between 2nd and 3rd. Some hills are too hard to pull in third but when you shift down to 2nd, you are too slow. If you couple the 5.13 TC with a T90-A, you would still have a 77:1 basement, and the rest of your gears would be pretty good selections: 77:1 41:1 27.5:1 15:1 8:1 5.4:1 On the highway, you would have the original selections that most the the jeeps you are running with have. ———————————————————— Yesterday, I wheeled with the Evans crew at Disney Oklahoma. The gears performed well:   Lots of the stuff in this park is out of my league but I did what I could, and tried what I couldn’t. I was not kind to these gears. I can not hear a difference between low range and hi range. I am particularity pleased with 4th gear low range. My old gear set whined annoyingly. This set does not sound any different than hi range. I’m pretty pleased. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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3A Steve
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Joined: 10 June 2016 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 880 |
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Posted: 06 Dec. 2020 at 10:56pm |
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Jeff,
The overdrive "thing" has (for me) three main parts. I drive a fair amount on highways and although the O/D doesn't make me go faster, it sure cuts down on the noise and makes things tolerable. I can, on a level run, get to 60. Without the O/D it is really loud and a bit scary. The second advantage is when you have lower gears than others do, with an O/D you can still go fast enough in 4 low to not have to stop and go into 4 high. Last, as you mentioned is 2nd gear with O/D which is especially nice with one particular mile or so long hill climb I hit on the way to my local trails. Something has got to give to enhance any particular feature. If I were to acquire one of your new T/Cs I would likely try to join it to a 4 speed overdrive trans. That would satisfy 2 out of the 3 reasons I love my O/D and still get me to 87:1. Thinking about your T/C... if you should ever need to repair or replace a gear, how would you get at the guts of it? Steve
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oldtime
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Posted: 07 Dec. 2020 at 4:27am |
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Jeff, I find your spur gear spread sheet showing feasible combinactions to be absolutely fascinating.
It looks like you are considering cutting both the helical and the spur gears. Had you previously figured out a spread sheet on the helical gears ? Regardless it looks to me that some sensible boundaries must be set in order to determine what gear combinations would be most practical. It should be obvious that the prime concern be one concering gear strength. If the finished gear is too weak it’s certainly useless. And perhaps secondly no one wants an overly noisy gear whine or growl. Then there is the issue of physical limitation. In my mind best results for most folks will be gears that fully fit into the case with minor grinding at the most. Major case mods are fine for some but I think most prefer to retain the option of going back to standard. And yes one must account for small hole case maximum gear diameters vs big hole case maximums gear diameters. I certainly vote for “big hole cases” so that both D18 and D20 can be used. Next and perhaps the final consideration when choosing optimum tooth counts would be if the gear diameter could physically be mated to a Warn bowl gear. Just for kicks I’ll measure a bowl gear to determine the minimum diameter for the main shaft helical gear I’ll double check this but I seem to recall that the Tera flex gears are very near to maximum possible diameter with minor grinding inside a big hole case.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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smfulle wrote: