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Lower Transfer Case Gears

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jpet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2022 at 9:27pm


Another set of X98 Supers goes out in the mail today. Soon to be two sets operating in the field.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hrspwrranch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 4:33pm
Will these work with overdrive?
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hosemonkey143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by hrspwrranch hrspwrranch wrote:

Will these work with overdrive?

I'm hoping for the same thing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 9:18pm
I know you said no tire kickers, but do you have a price posted somewhere for the super gear kit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 11:24pm
No overdrive. The input gear is smaller than the overdrive bearing.

The X98 supers are $1800 + shipping + your intermediate gear.   Please PM me if you want detailed information.

Thx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 1:44am
Thanks,

That’s a bit out of my price range for what I do with my Jeep. I’m sure it’s worth every penny though. Amazing engineering.

Maybe in the future.

Thanks for the reply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJOWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug. 2022 at 11:29pm
I just went through the Rubicon trail in my M38 with X98 gears. The gears were fantastic to have on the Rubicon!

Edited by EJOWest - 06 Aug. 2022 at 6:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug. 2022 at 7:13am
Originally posted by EJOWest EJOWest wrote:

I just went through the Rubicon trail in my M38 with X98 gears. The gears were fantastic to have on the Rubicon!



I was wondering how that was going. Look forward to the video!!
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov. 2022 at 4:02pm
Hi all,

Due to some changes at work, I've not been able to devote the time I'd like to on this project but I do have some updates:



I currently have 13 sets of gears out for cutting and heat treating. Hope to get them back soon but everything is slow these days.

This is an intermediate shaft project that I am working on:







The idea is to make an intermediate shaft that will set the preload on the bearings perfectly while also acting as a girdle to hold the case together and also to use both sides of the case to support the thrust of the gears rather than only one side which is the way the stock setup works and it is also the way the AA shaft works.

In this application, there is a spacer that goes inside the intermediate gear and between the inner races. The length of the spacer is made to make the bearing races snug against both inner sides of the case:



... likewise, the counterbores in the intermediate gear are at a precise depth to create the correct preload. In this picture, you can see shims behind the cups. I used these to dial in the pre-load that I want when everything is pulled together tight....





I use this jack screw to spread the case apart ever so slightly so that i can get the intermediate gear assembly inside the case easier. (see above)

The nut on the intermediate shaft only serves to hold everything together. The pre-load is all created by proper shimming. Now that I know how deep to go with the c'bores, I may not even need the shims.



I took some skim cuts on both outside surfaces of the case to make them flat and perpendicular to the case bores. The intermediate shaft is made of 4140 pre-hard and has this shoulder to clamp up to the outside of the case and because it is machined to miss the texas pattern, the shaft can't spin in the bore.

This is a pic of me spinning the assembly after everything is installed and tightened up. Unlike the AA shaft, this one has a 7/8-14 shaft and nut which are on the back side of the case. I'll have to use a lock nut or castle nut in the finished product.



I had been shying away from the tapered bearings because I was afraid that if they get loose, the intermediate gear could get angled more than with the needle bearings but the needle bearings seem to generate a significant amount of heat. hopefully, I can make the case run cooler with these bearings.

FYI, Jack Obrein uses a larger bearing in his tapered bearing kit:





He is able to do this because he makes the entire cluster gear with a bigger spool in the center.



These bearings won't fit in a stock intermediate gear. Thanks for reading.

Edited by jpet - 10 Nov. 2022 at 4:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 43 Flat-Fender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov. 2022 at 6:08pm
Amazing effort and progress Jeff.

Impressive dedication to the Art and Science of "Going Sloooow".
Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 2022 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

The nut on the intermediate shaft only serves to hold everything together. The pre-load is all created by proper shimming. Now that I know how deep to go with the c'bores, I may not even need the shims.

More impressive engineering!  Wouldn't putting "some" torque on the nut tie both front and back of the case together for more strength and maybe lessen the probability of splitting it?  The the stock arrangement and the AA kit obviously do not do that.  The original AA kit I bought decades back had a crush sleeve in it between the bearings but that still left the front shaft retainer floating to set the preload.
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 2022 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by duffer duffer wrote:

...Wouldn't putting "some" torque on the nut tie both front and back of the case together for more strength and maybe lessen the probability of splitting it? ...
Yes, and that is what I will do. I was just trying to make the point that the pre-load is not set by the nut via floating shaft as you described. The nut simply holds the bearings and case together. You can crank on this nut and it will not affect the pre-load.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 2022 at 3:49pm
Very similar to the intermediate gear set up on the New Process 205 transfer case used in the 70s by Chevy and Ford.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roostre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov. 2022 at 11:19am
Wow! Super impressed with your ability to keep making these TCs better and better!

Still loving the gears; in fact they have survived a bearing failure now looking no worse for the wear. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov. 2022 at 11:38am
Soooo, if one has the X98 gear machined for AA's kit, you would need to remachine the race seats deeper for this set up?  Are you using the same Timken Set 14 bearings as the AA kit?

And when are these anticipated to hit the market?  The X98 project is still on the bench but is on the queue-----------
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 2022 at 7:50am
Originally posted by duffer duffer wrote:

Soooo, if one has the X98 gear machined for AA's kit, you would need to remachine the race seats deeper for this set up?  …
No, actually you would need to add shims. I machined your C’bores to .485 deep per the AA drawing. In order to make the inner cones fit snug between the case frame, these c’bores need to be about .4795 deep or so. I don’t have an exact number yet.   McMaster Carr sells 50mm x 40mm x .1mm thick shims that might work. If I could find increments of .001”, it would be better. In order to dial mine in, I machined the C’bores about .06 deeper so that I could make precise shims in the lathe.
Quote …Are you using the same Timken Set 14 bearings as the AA kit?…
Yes. I looked around to see if I could find a bigger bearing but I think set 14 is about as big as I can go and still have reasonable strength in the spool. Besides, I’m trying to keep the heat down so I’d rather use smaller bearings even if I have to replace them once in a while. They work ok on the rear axles of tandem trailers and those wheels are under significant thrust at times.
Quote …And when are these anticipated to hit the market?  The X98 project is still on the bench but is on the queue-----------
Well, that depends. How many wheeling trips do I have to do before I can be confident that the product is thoroughly tested? With this setup, the pre-load is non adjustable so whatever “I” think is the proper preload is what everyone has to live with. I’m going with the basic rule that inboard cones are supposed to have a slight preload and outboard cones a slight clearance so I made this setup so that when the cluster gear is spun by hand, it will spin freely but not just keep coasting. Same thing as Metalshaper recommends. ….
… what I don’t know yet is what will happen when this setup is put in the vehicle and wheeled hard a few times. My experience with the AA kit is that it always loosens up a bit and I have to go back at tighten the nut. With this setup, that may not be possible. Idk. Still in R&D. Right now. I’m very busy at work but I plan to get all this in by January and run it at Winter Jamboree.

I can make you the shaft, bearing spacer and end cap. You would need to get the shims for your cups I also machined the outside surfaces of my case to make them perpendicular to the case bores. I’m not sure if that is necessary or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 2022 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Originally posted by duffer duffer wrote:

Soooo, if one has the X98 gear machined for AA's kit, you would need to remachine the race seats deeper for this set up?  …
No, actually you would need to add shims. I machined your C’bores to .485 deep per the AA drawing. In order to make the inner cones fit snug between the case frame, these c’bores need to be about .4795 deep or so. I don’t have an exact number yet.   McMaster Carr sells 50mm x 40mm x .1mm thick shims that might work. If I could find increments of .001”, it would be better. In order to dial mine in, I machined the C’bores about .06 deeper so that I could make precise shims in the lathe.
Quote …Are you using the same Timken Set 14 bearings as the AA kit?…
Yes. I looked around to see if I could find a bigger bearing but I think set 14 is about as big as I can go and still have reasonable strength in the spool. Besides, I’m trying to keep the heat down so I’d rather use smaller bearings even if I have to replace them once in a while. They work ok on the rear axles of tandem trailers and those wheels are under significant thrust at times.
Quote …And when are these anticipated to hit the market?  The X98 project is still on the bench but is on the queue-----------
Well, that depends. How many wheeling trips do I have to do before I can be confident that the product is thoroughly tested? With this setup, the pre-load is non adjustable so whatever “I” think is the proper preload is what everyone has to live with. I’m going with the basic rule that inboard cones are supposed to have a slight preload and outboard cones a slight clearance so I made this setup so that when the cluster gear is spun by hand, it will spin freely but not just keep coasting. Same thing as Metalshaper recommends. ….
… what I don’t know yet is what will happen when this setup is put in the vehicle and wheeled hard a few times. My experience with the AA kit is that it always loosens up a bit and I have to go back at tighten the nut. With this setup, that may not be possible. Idk. Still in R&D. Right now. I’m very busy at work but I plan to get all this in by January and run it at Winter Jamboree.

I can make you the shaft, bearing spacer and end cap. You would need to get the shims for your cups I also machined the outside surfaces of my case to make them perpendicular to the case bores. I’m not sure if that is necessary or not.
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 2022 at 4:43pm
Have you checked to see how much deflection there is in the case when snugged/extended between the intermediate shaft bores?
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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