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Lower Transfer Case Gears

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AKoller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AKoller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep. 2021 at 11:11am
A date of 1949 would make sense. That case is the original out of Thumper and he is an early 1950 3A. If I remember correctly the T90 that you have that came out of Thumper was also dated late 1949.
1950 CJ3A "Thumper"
1966 M151 A1
1942 GPW #70221
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep. 2021 at 11:31am
September 1949, assembly line "D".
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.)
U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep. 2021 at 6:51pm


Like Bob W said, you have to install the intermediate gear first. I installed the slide gear fork first so that I had more room to get a wrench on it. Then, I installed the intermediate gear.



For this assembly, I am using the AA tapered bearing kit. One thing I don’t like about the AA kit is that it fixes the intermediate gear assembly to the rear of the case. I cut the counterbore in the intermediate gear spool to the depth called out by the AA instructions. After assembling everything, it leaves a .015 gap between the front bearing and the inner case wall. Since the gears are helical, in forward motion, the gear tries to pull towards the front., and since there is a .015 gap, I’m nervous that the outer wall can flex .015. For this reason, I decided to put a shim in between (see pic)

It would have been easier to put a shim behind the bearing cup, or better yet, just not cut the counterbore so deep, but these are the shims I had to work with.

This is what I was talking about earlier on clearance between the thrust washer and the output gear. I actually had to dress a little off the OD and chamfer the edge that sits inside the gear bore:





One thing that is very nice about this setup is they the output gear is smaller than the bores in the case so you can install and remove the snapping outside the case:







These gears are quiet when I spin them on the bench. “Silent but deadly”.



Barring any interruptions, I’ll finish this up tomorrow.

I plan to bring this assembly to the fall reunion if anyone wants to come and check it out.

.... sorry for the messy bench. It’s just how I work.

Edited by jpet - 02 Sep. 2021 at 6:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep. 2021 at 8:19pm
The clearance grinding on the front face of the 1949 1-1/8" case looks like my 1-1/8" case. I think that the 1-1/4" case would not require any grinding on the front face, just some touchup in the corners, and of course the hole in the top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep. 2021 at 12:01pm
A note about milling the lip on your shifter case, ... (or whatever you call it), you don’t necessarily have to mill off the exact same amount as the added washer. As long as the bearing is clear, you are good. If you are willing to spend time assembling and disassembling the case, you can mill the lip to a depth that ensures that the faces of the intermediate gear and output gears are flush.



I’m not sure if this has been mentioned yet but you will have to cut some off the 4wd in and out shaft,( or whatever it’s called).



... as is, the shaft will collide with the bigger gear when 4wd is disengaged.   I removed 3/8” off the end.



When 4wd is engaged, the end of the shaft still extends through the bore in the case.



Everything is together other than the guards:



One thing not pictured is that you will have to do a mod to the pan. The thicker gear collides with the inside of the pan on one bolt hole area. Simply dent the pan outward. It will be obvious when you assemble it. Once you do this, a hex head bolt will not fit. You can use a socket head cap screw.

Edited by jpet - 03 Sep. 2021 at 12:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep. 2021 at 11:14pm
What are you guy's opinions on what oils to run with these new gears?  I should be installing my transfer case into the jeep this weekend and am worried that the newer gear lubes will eat up the intermediate shaft brass or bronze? thrust washers.  

-Barry
1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
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1946 CJ2A 36723
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep. 2021 at 8:37am
Personally I feel that NAPA GL1 should be totally sufficient.
But if you wanna go synthetic, then I have found the GL5 rated Mobil One to be yellow metal friendly. 
That said I have found the Mobil One to be “too slippery” for the cone clutches found inside of a BW transmission.
This implies that the blocking rings are not getting enough grip onto the gear cones in order to synchronize the shifting of gears properly.
But that is only a transmission issue and has no ill effect on the transfer case.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep. 2021 at 9:11am
Thanks!  I want to make every effort to protect all the hard work everyone has put into this project so it sounds like Mobil One is the way to go for the T-case with GL1 still in the T90.  I'll get a sealed bearing ordered up today.  Hope I can get one by this weekend.

-Barry
1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729
194? CJ2A 04893/194304
1946 CJ2A 46745
1946 CJ2A 36723
1945 MB   413665
1971 CJ5 8305017 375392 Drive train parts donor
Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep. 2021 at 10:52am
My plan is to run GL1 in this transfer case just like in the transmission.  If you don't have a sealed bearing in the back of your transmission, some of the  GL1 from the transmission in going to end up in the transfer case.  GL1 has worked in the past in these transfer cases and I have destroyed gold metal parts with assembly lube (which is odd, but it happened after a year in storage).  So, I am sticking with the GL1 and not going to add the Mobil 1 variable at this point.
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2021 at 7:38pm
Finally got around to assembling my transfer case with the new jpet gear set.





Out with the old and in with the new!!!

I did a couple things differently..



I set the endplay to zero this time. Used the stock intermediate gear shaft and needle bearings instead of the AA tapered roller bearing conversion.



Instead of a socket head cap screw I just used a bolt with a jam nut where the pan is modified to fit the larger gear.



Been using an easy fill plug on the rear cover. Much easier to fill than the stock side plug. All my plugs have magnets.





Went with a sealed rear transmission bearing this time and a modified gasket to keep the transmission and transfer case oils separate. There are a lot of potential leak points here so I'm not sure how well this will actually work out... time will tell. I used 75w140 synthetic oil in the transfer case.

Went for a quick test drive and really like how the transfer case operates and sounds. I'm going to take it easy for a while so the gears can break in.


Edited by Bob W - 02 Oct. 2021 at 8:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2021 at 8:27pm
Thanks for posting Bob. I’m anxious to see these in use.

I’m no expert but I think it would be best to get some good road miles on these gear for break-in. It seems like the fastest way to lap in the helical gears and it puts all three under load. Too bad you can’t do a road trip in reverse to lap in the slack side of the gears :)

I also think it might be a good idea to change oil after 100 miles or so. I noticed on my first oil change that the oil had a slight grey hue to it which I assume is from the gears lapping in. Second time I drained the oil it was clean. Look forward to the updates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2021 at 8:34pm
I am planning to run them under light load on the road for a while. I have 3 magnetic plugs in the transfer case so I can easily check for metal in the oil. Road tests in reverse can be problematic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct. 2021 at 8:59pm
New gears are in and work like a charm!  Story on my thread.

-Barry

1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729
194? CJ2A 04893/194304
1946 CJ2A 46745
1946 CJ2A 36723
1945 MB   413665
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Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct. 2021 at 9:22pm
Sweet. There are now 3 stock Willys that are running these gears.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2021 at 6:39am
Grasshopper crawls with jpet's gears.

1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729
194? CJ2A 04893/194304
1946 CJ2A 46745
1946 CJ2A 36723
1945 MB   413665
1971 CJ5 8305017 375392 Drive train parts donor
Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 11:30am
   
Update on Jeff's gears.

I now have 85 miles on the new gears with around 10 or 15 in low range.  They have performed flawlessly so far.  Last weekend on the Ohio Fall Colors Ride we ran mostly off road trails that were pretty challenging in spots.  I purposely took even harder lines to put the gears to the test.  What a treat to climb rocks and ledges without bashing and having to slip the clutch.  

I did hear a clicking noise coming from the transfer case that was most predominant in 3rd gear low range.  I didn't want to post any thing though until I had a chance to investigate.  After removing the drive shafts so I could run the transfer case while laying under the jeep, it turns out I had 2 sources of noise.  I pulled the covers and found that the clicking noise is coming from a bad tooth on the slide gear which I had purchase used.  The 2nd noise was a clearance issue where the slide gear was rubbing the inside of the bottom cover where I had brazed pin holes shut.  

Looks like I will be trying to find a new slide gear and bottom pan but the important thing is that Jeff's gears are perfect!  I will post photos of everything on my thread once I have time - hopefully Sunday.

-Barry

1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729
194? CJ2A 04893/194304
1946 CJ2A 46745
1946 CJ2A 36723
1945 MB   413665
1971 CJ5 8305017 375392 Drive train parts donor
Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thisoldwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 7:08pm
The Novak pan is deeper and holds more goo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2021 at 8:14pm
The stock pan is deep enough for the modified gear set, it just needs more clearance in a small area at the front. I would be concerned that the Novak pan may not be able to be modified for the new intermediate gear front clearance.
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