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WellFedHobo's '48 CJ2A project (#158011)

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dasvis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2023 at 12:28am
Same here. Even torque across the manifolds must be maintained. & also, I would recommend having the intake & exhaust manifold assembled with new hot spot gasket and machined flat as a unit. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WellFedHobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 6:55pm
When I replaced the exhaust manifold, I did make sure the holes lined up and I placed a straight edge (known flat) along the machined surfaces diagonally etc. The eyeball gauge said that the surface was level, and the gasket was new so even if it was a couple thousandths off, it should have worked ok. They were all torqued down evenly and I just torqued them all down evenly again. 

I went to hook up the timing light and was reminded that what I have is an M38 engine, not a CJ2A engine... The block casting is different and it blocks the timing marks.



The pulley doesn't have any kind of timing marks so I'm flying blind. I don't know that I have enough experience to adjust the timing by ear because I don't really know what it's supposed to sound like.

At least I've got the idle down to 950 instead of 1200-1300. Incremental progress. 


Edited by WellFedHobo - 07 Mar. 2023 at 6:58pm
Brad
1948 CJ2A #158011 "Sunk Cost Fallacy"
1945 T3-C #1431
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 7:09pm
M38 engine - does it have timing marks on the front cover and a notch on the pulley?
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WellFedHobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 7:11pm
Not that I see. It was some kind of rebuild  so it has the CJ2A everything from the bell housing back, but seems to have 2A front accessories. (And it also has some GPW head bolts, F script...)
Brad
1948 CJ2A #158011 "Sunk Cost Fallacy"
1945 T3-C #1431
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 7:27pm
Give us a photo of the pulley.

A M38 pulley has 2 belts (both equal size) where if the CJ has 2 they aren't equal size. Sounds like you have a single pulley?

If you have a M38 pulley it either has a timing notch on it, or a small hole on the inside, neither easy to see, especially with crud everywhere.

Timing pointers are $10 and easy to install on the timing cover, same as the Army and Willys did when they moved timing from the flywheel to the front of the motor for those blocks.

Even if you have a CJ pulley (single or double belt), you can use the same pointer after you find TDC and 5-degrees and mark it yourself.


Edited by Ron D - 07 Mar. 2023 at 7:28pm
1951 M38
1951 M100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 7:29pm
  Well, it looks like you may need to use the vacuum gauge method. I can’t tell you how, because I don’t use that method, but I’m sure someone will be glad to ‘splain it to you. If you don’t have a vacuum gauge, go get one. You should have one anyway. 
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 7:31pm
1951 M38
1951 M100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WellFedHobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 8:00pm
Well, I have an M38 pulley then, because it's two of the same size. But I never saw a hole drilled, or a mark. I figured it would be obvious. Though the pulley was a bit dinged up so I might have painted over it without seeing.




Brad
1948 CJ2A #158011 "Sunk Cost Fallacy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 8:01pm
When my jeep's engine was apart, I painted two marks- one on the pulley and the other on the cover. It doesn't matter where these marks are; they just need to line up with the engine at TDC.
I then use my timing light with a dial and then use the dial to line the marks up when the engine is running. Read the dial and that's where you're at. 
There's no way I could see those flywheel marks even on a good day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 8:17pm
Might just be the angle of your photo.......are you certain both belt slots are identical in width? The outboard slot in the bottom photo looks fatter to me.
A CJ double pulley used a fat outer belt for a governer belt I believe.

There's some inconsistency in how M38 pulleys were marked.
If it has a notch it would be a small v-shape cut into the outer circumference on the inboard pulley.
If it has the hole (about 1/8-inch) it's on the inside of the inboard pulley (very difficult to find, usually only used to transfer a notch to the easy to find position).

As already mentioned, get yourself a timing pointer bolted on, find TDC for #1, mark the pulley, and you'll never have to look at the flywheel again for timing marks.

The pointer uses the 2 studs just below the oil hose fitting.

Yes, there's a pretty reliable way to tune by vacuum and dwell (google it) if that's how you want to roll.

By the way, the belt in your bottom photo looks way wrong size (width) for that pulley. Maybe my imagination.


Edited by Ron D - 07 Mar. 2023 at 8:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 8:36pm
Figure 27 on page 22 (Chapter C - Tune-up) of your Willys Universal Jeep Service Manual shows it pretty good.

You do have a Willys Service Manual?
1951 M38
1951 M100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 8:57pm
Yeah, looks like the crank pulley is for a 5/8” top width belt & the alternator uses a 1/2” belt. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 9:06pm
Yup.
And to confuse it more, looking at his 2 photos --- it's not the same pulley in both.





Edited by Ron D - 07 Mar. 2023 at 9:07pm
1951 M38
1951 M100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 9:15pm
Speedway motors sells a conversion pulley for that Alternator that will adapt it to a 5/8" wide belt. PITA to swap but really saves belts. I recommend highly the Gates Green belts in the wider size.  Do a search on their web site for a flat head V8 Alternator pulley a number of choices will come up.


Edited by Mark W. - 08 Mar. 2023 at 12:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 9:20pm
Would have to see what pulley he's running on the water pump.

It might be a 3-way mis-match. LOL


Edited by Ron D - 07 Mar. 2023 at 9:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 9:23pm
Hobo, i'm not convinced you have an m38 pulley. the m38 pulley dia is 6-3/8", much larger than the std 5-1/4" pulley. Both grooves on the larger pulley are 1/2" narrow belt. i've attached 2 pics of the different  m38 pulley types, note the shape of the face is much different than what you have posted. the back side pics show both the notch type and the hole.

 



Edited by muley - 07 Mar. 2023 at 9:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelyard Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 11:10pm
As per Mark’s suggestion. This is what I used. It is also a smaller diameter to assist charging at idle.
Micah

1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WellFedHobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2023 at 11:28pm
It seems that it might just be a CJ2A pulley after all. One side is slightly larger, though the front of the pully is somewhat bent up. I bent it back as best I could while the engine was out of the Jeep. It's definitely the same pulley in both pictures. Paint and a pair of pliers can do wonders. (Plus I was too lazy to remove it to begin with.)

I might just take the easy way out on this one. I need to replace the oil pan because what's on there is too bent and leaky to continue using and I already have a new one. While I have the pan off, I can visually rotate it to TDC from below, add the timing indicator as suggested, and paint a mark on the pulley while I'm at it.
Brad
1948 CJ2A #158011 "Sunk Cost Fallacy"
1945 T3-C #1431
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