Determining Axle ratio |
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dodjh
Member Joined: 18 July 2012 Location: ms Status: Offline Points: 1325 |
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Posted: 23 Oct. 2020 at 11:29pm |
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There is a method to determine your axle ratio by rotating the tire and counting revolutions of the drive shaft...I think. Would someone explain how that is done for me. Thanks Also, where on the pumpkin is the I.D. for what axle it is: i.e. Dana 23,25, 27? Thanks again
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 4183 |
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Differential ratio is best identified by the numbers stamped into the ring gear.
All early CJ’s built prior to 11/62 were standard with 43/8 ring/pinion. Earlier gear sets were Salisbury and later gear sets (later 50’s) were Spicer. Model 23-2 is a rear axle assembly . Model 25 front axles have the vent located on the differential cover. Model 27 front axles have the vent located on top of the carrier casting.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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berettajeep
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Chalk line ( or make a mental note where you start) edge of tire and a point on the body. Also chalk line driveshaft and the axle. Rotate tire counting how many time the driveshaft spins to one revolution of the tire. If the driveshaft spins a little more then five times for one full spin of the tire you have 5.38:1's.
But as mentioned, removing the cover and reading the gears is the for sure method to find out what you have. |
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dodjh
Member Joined: 18 July 2012 Location: ms Status: Offline Points: 1325 |
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Okay, thank you both...been a while since I did it.
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rocnroll
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......and if it spins almost five times you have 4.88's. |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9648 |
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If you raise one tire and leave the other one on the floor, the tire must go around TWICE. If you raise both tires you must turn them together and exactly the same amount. Difficult to do. Leave one on the floor and turn one two turns.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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dodjh
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The Jeep I'm checking out, has both front tires removed. Should that matter, if I rotate the tire mounting lugs? I could place a bar in-between the opposite lugs so it wont rotate.
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Bruce W
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That oughta work. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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dodjh
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When I pulled the Rzeppa axle out, (one I'm working on) some of the steel balls fell out...do they stay in their positions with the grease...if so what grade/weight? Thanks |
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dodjh
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Checked out 2 donor Jeeps and both have 43/8 R & P gear count. Pulled Diff. cover off and counted the teeth for each. Now need to determine which one has the best Axle end 'Loop' for the K.P/Steering knuckle bearings and race. Maybe tomorrow.
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dodjh
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Pulled axle out of 1 of my donor Jeeps...it has the vent on the front of the diff. case like mine but the axle ends had a washer, nut and cotter pin. Mine doesn't. Both have Rzeppa axles, or what I understand as a Rzeppa axle. Donor had 'hood' over R. joint and steel balls were contained in that. This was the Pass. side axle. On the 1 I'm repairing, I have the driver side axle out, but that is the side that was tilting in and breakdown showed lower king pin perch separated and irreparable. Also I have lock-in hubs on the 1 I'm repairing, if that has any bearing on why my axle ends don't have cotter pin, washer and nut on the end...? I'm confused.
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 4183 |
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Yes we can easily tell that you are confused.
You are using all manner of non standard terms to describe what your observing. No shame in that but you have a lot to learn. First off I have no idea what vintage or model of Jeep you are working on. You have supplied no pics nor have you adequately described what you are attempting to accomplish. How many axle assemblies do you have ? Just the one your rebuilding plus a parts donor or ? If you cannot identify we can identify a lot via pics. If none of your front steering axle carriers (pumpkin section) has a vent on top then it’s most likely you have model 25 axles and most all parts can interchange. What year and model of Jeep are you working on ? Are you just trying to keep it going with spare parts on hand or do you want it correct for your Jeep model and vintage ?
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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dodjh
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"COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH
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dodjh
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Type Jeep: '53' M38A1 Possible axles assembly's to use: 2 complete w/o vents on top What you are attempting to accomplish: Driver side lower King pin perch/steering knuckle that the race and bearing sit in, is separated and irreparable. My only option is to remove and replace the axle housing with one that is not damaged/compromised. If my donor Jeeps have the same Front axle, Dana 25, (which they appear to) with exception to the question raised earlier about why 1 has an axle nut. washer & cotter pin on the end of the axle, while the Jeep I'm repairing doesn't. Goal: To correct the problem..if possible use parts from 2 Donors Jeeps...doesn't need to be correct for my Jeep model and vintage. 1) '48' CJ2-A 2) Same or earlier year...not a complete Jeep w/ only running gear and body If I've left anything out, let me know. No shame in that but you have a lot to learn. I agree.
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"COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 4183 |
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Unless changed out, all cj axles 1945 through 1962 will be 5.38 ratio.
And all cj axles prior to 1961 were model 25 only.
Certainly best to change the axle rather than try to do a repair on the damage seen on the other forum pic. So if the gear ratios check out then change out the entire axle assembly. Several different types of axle shafts were available and used. Generally Rzeppa was the best, then Spicer ( produced after 1955 only) and least desirable is Bendix type. Axle shafts require both inward and outward end float control. That’s why the shafts are different on the ends. Some use shims, washer and a nut and other shafts simply use a “C” clip. The proper end float control method depends mainly on the type of spindles you have installed. And we need know if you have a bronze ring inside your housing hemisphere. Take a close look at the bronze bushing that goes into your various hub spindles. Perhaps you will understand from that. I suggest you go with later design end float control if your axle shafts with “c” clip are in good condition. Proper spindles for later type will have a bronze bushing that controls the outward end float of the axle joint. Look closely at how the various axle shaft universal joints are able to press up against the various design spindle bushings. Inward end float on late type shafts is controlled by the “C” clip (snap ring ) located at end of axle shaft. Not all free wheeling hubs can be used with early type axle shafts This is due to large size of axle end float adjustments nut, etc. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3190 |
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If your axle housing is the the one pictured in the link then I'm sorry...it is beyond repair. People that suggest that it can be welded are not being realistic about whether the bearing race will seat properly in a welded housing. In my repair shop I have run across king pin races that fit in housings that were egged somewhat and found it was impossible to make the geometry right enough that the job wouldn't come back on me as a satisfactory repair. I always found it easier and better for the customer to just get a different axle and install it with any needed repair parts. Unless a person had some really sophisticated machine shop equipment I'm guessing that it would be impossible to repair that housing. I would go with what Oldtime is suggesting and use an whole axle assembly out of a pre-60s CJ. Be sure to go through the knuckles and make sure that the king pin bearings are not brinelled. You could strip the damaged housing of good spare parts like the ring and pinion and axle shafts but the housing itself is junk. Just my opinion, of course. |
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dodjh
Member Joined: 18 July 2012 Location: ms Status: Offline Points: 1325 |
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[QUOTE=oldtime]Unless changed out, all cj axles 1945 through 1962 will be 5.38 ratio.
And all cj axles prior to 1961 were model 25 only. Certainly best to change the axle rather than try to do a repair on the damage seen on the other forum pic. So if the gear ratios check out then change out the entire axle assembly. Several different types of axle shafts were available and used. Generally Rzeppa was the best, then Spicer ( produced after 1955 only) and least desirable is Bendix type. Axle shafts require both inward and outward end float control. That’s why the shafts are different on the ends. Some use shims, washer and a nut and other shafts simply use a “C” clip. The proper end float control method depends mainly on the type of spindles you have installed. And we need know if you have a bronze ring inside your housing hemisphere. Take a close look at the bronze bushing that goes into your various hub spindles. Perhaps you will understand from that. I suggest you go with later design end float control if your axle shafts with “c” clip are in good condition. Proper spindles for later type will have a bronze bushing that controls the outward end float of the axle joint. Look closely at how the various axle shaft universal joints are able to press up against the various design spindle bushings. Inward end float on late type shafts is controlled by the “C” clip (snap ring ) located at end of axle shaft. Not all free wheeling hubs can be used with early type axle shafts This is due to large size of axle end float adjustments nut, etc. [QUOTE=oldtime]Unless changed out, all cj axles 1945 through 1962 will be 5.38 ratio.And all cj axles prior to 1961 were model 25 only. I removed the Pumpkin cover on the 2 donor Jeeps and they both have 43 R.G. teeth and 8 P. teeth and the vent on the pumpkin cover. Certainly best to change the axle rather than try to do a repair on the damage seen on the other forum pic. So if the gear ratios check out then change out the entire axle assembly. Okay, I agree that is the right way to do it. Several different types of axle shafts were available and used. Generally Rzeppa was the best, then Spicer ( produced after 1955 only) and least desirable is Bendix type. Yes, I read Rzeppa had 29 degree turn angle verses 23 on Spicer & Bendix along with other qualities that made Rzeppa more desirable. Axle shafts require both inward and outward end float control. That’s why the shafts are different on the ends. Some use shims, washer and a nut and other shafts simply use a “C” clip. The proper end float control method depends mainly on the type of spindles you have installed. Thanks for explaining the proper end float control method. I'm familiar with the "C clip" type and those using 2 nuts and washers that have folding ears. Not so much ones with shims. And we need know if you have a bronze ring inside your housing hemisphere. If the housing hemisphere is where the saddle part of the knuckle joins the axle tube, the 38 and donor #2 both have a bronze sleeve or bushing clearly visible. Take a close look at the bronze bushing that goes into your various hub spindles. Proper spindles for later type will have a bronze bushing that controls the outward end float of the axle joint. Perhaps you will understand from that. I suggest you go with later design end float control if your axle shafts with “c” clip are in good condition. Proper spindles for later type will have a bronze bushing that controls the outward end float of the axle joint. Look closely at how the various axle shaft universal joints are able to press up against the various design spindle bushings. Inward end float on late type shafts is controlled by the “C” clip (snap ring ) located at end of axle shaft. Not
all free wheeling hubs can be used with early type axle shafts This is
due to large size of axle end float adjustments nut, etc. Think I got it, Thanks for the time and explanation...will know more tomorrow as to what I have.
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"COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH
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dodjh
Member Joined: 18 July 2012 Location: ms Status: Offline Points: 1325 |
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I agree, read many of your posts on axles and the Donor #2 Jeep showed a brindled race...clearly on the race where the K. P. bearing sits. So will have to buy new K.Pins bearings and Races + shims. SE Kansas, thank you for your opinion.
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"COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH
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