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CFFC Fall Color Tours 2021! - Event Date: 19 Sep. 2021 - 24 Sep. 2021

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3A Steve View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3A Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 2:52am
As one who didn't make it this time, I'd still like to add my thanks for your and Nancy's effort to maintain and expand the old jeep world. Greatly enjoyed the past three years at the Thirsty Dirt.

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heimbig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 8:45pm
Mike-  I would like to say thanks for putting this event together and making sure it is successful.  As one who wasn't selected, I was disappointed, but I understand where you want this to be fun and educational for all that attend.
It should never become more work and headaches than it is worth.
Hopefully next year I will get chosen.
It would also make for a great trip to see my brother in Boulder.

Keep up the great work.

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 9:41pm
Well it happened sooner than I thought it might.  I have a withdrawal from the primary list.  I am surprised at how soon after the lottery this withdrawal came.  So I now have a slot offering out for an alternate.  If I don't hear from him within about 48 hours, then I will offer it to another Alternate.  That's the way it works.  I will call and text the phone number for the alternate that I have on the registration form.  They will have 48 hours to respond to me.  Not neccessarily to make a decision, but to let me know they received my message.  We will discuss their filling the primary slot.  If they take it, then great.  My search is done.  If they don't take it, then I will offer it to the next person on the list.  They will have 48 hours to respond.  If they don't take it, I will keep looking at the next alternate.  Once you have passed on filling a primary slot, I will not ask you again.  I have enough alternates who would love to fill the slot, that I will not ask anyone more than once to fill a primary slot.  
M38Mike
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52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box
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m38mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 5:04am
Welcome Mr. Mattes and company to the primary list. Thank you for responding so quickly. 
M38Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 9:50am
Hey, things are looking up...only 18 more to go.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 54willysjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2021 at 2:05pm
I'm very happy to make the alternate list on the first go around.  If anymore drop out I would love to fill in the slot. 

Again thanks Mike for putting this event together year after year. If I don't make it from anyone dropping out. I look forward to applying next year for this event. 
54 Willys CJ3B (Rikki-Bobby's Jeep)
42 GPW14359 Cal "Shake n' Bake's Jeep" Dallas TX plant. Missing everything when I got it.
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m38mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 6:59am
And yet another Primary has to pull out.  This time it's Dr.'s orders.  Our good thoughts and well wishes go out to them, with the hope that we'll see them here next year.  So I'll be diving back into the alternate pool to fill this position.  I hope I don't continue to lose Primary folks at this rate, or by September I will completely replace Primaries with Alternates! 

I finally got around to checking to see how many new Jeeps are coming this year, and I've currently got 14 out of 50 that have not been here before.  That number is sure to go up as my next several alternates are mostly new folks.  

I've been giving some thought to changing the way I do the lottery and I'd like to hear some opinions back from all of you.  Currently it's pretty simple, one Jeep, one chance.  So I'll call this option 1.  Part of me would like to be able to give more opportunities for new folks to attend.  Toward that idea I have two different ways to help that happen.  With option 1 this year I currently have 28% new Jeeps and 72% returning Jeeps.  That's the way the lottery numbers fell. But everyone had a 47% chance of getting selected.  (50 slots / 107 registrations = .47)

The first is to make a hard percentage split between new folks and returning folks.  Perhaps a 50/50  new/return split.  I'll call this option 2.  In doing this I would have 2 lotteries, one for new folks, and one for returning folks.  They would not be competing with everyone for a slot like in option 1, just within their group of either the new folks or the returning folks.   This year I had 53 new Jeeps register and 54 returning Jeeps register.  So under option 2, each group would have about a 47% chance of getting selected. (25 slots/53 new = .47) (25/54 returnee = .46)  So how does this differ from option 1?  Under option 2 I would have 11 more new folks selected, and 11 fewer returnee's selected.  And under option 2 then I would have to maintain 2 separate alternate lists in order to keep the 50/50 split.  

Under a third option that I had considered I would develop a weighting system to give an advantage in the lottery for new folks, or folks who had not been selected after a few years of registering, or some other criteria that I wanted to support.  But as I thought about this more, I realized that I would be creating a ton of extra work for myself since I run the lottery by myself.  And by introducing a bias by supporting one group of folks over another, then I was no longer being as fair as I should be in offering opportunities to participate.  So I've already dismissed this option as too much work and too unfair. 

So now I would like to hear some opinions and ideas on the lottery.  Should I just let everyone take their chance to win a slot, or should I bias the selection process with a hard split between new and returning Jeepers?  If I use a hard split, what should be the percentages?  What do you see as the pro's and con's of each system?  Either post your comments here, or send me a private message or email.  I'll consider all the responses I get in making my decision on how to run next year's lottery.  It will not change this year's lottery results.  

And very soon I'll begin discussing what kinds of preparations I would suggest for those who are coming this year.  One of the first discussion points will be "Accomodations".  Where are you going to sleep while you're at FCT?  
M38Mike
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52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OffroadDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 9:32am
Mike, we were all "new" at one point for the first year. But, then we became "returning".
Being "new" is just a brief passage into being "returning".

Although there will always be "new" people wanting to attend, the group of "returning" grows each year.

Having said all that, my opinion is that we keep Option 1 and let the chips fall where they may.
Everyone has an equal chance to register and an equal chance to be selected.

Thank you for what you do!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madbrit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 10:20am
I agree with Offroad Dave - Option 1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heimbig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 10:43am
I would say leave it the way it is.  Using your current system it could have turned out that 72% were new and 28% were returning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mriceflinter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 3:20pm
Mike, My feeling is to stay the way you have it now. If you separate entries by50/50 split I think it could possibly give an unfair advantage to one group or the other depending on how many apply in each group. I doubt you would have an even split every year like you had this year. Also if you were to bias the split according to the number of registrations, a persons chances of getting picked would essentially be the same as you have now. You do a heck of a lot of work to put this on every year and it is greatly appreciated so I don't think you need to give yourself any more work on the FCT than you already have. I hope my reasoning can be understood cause I don't always express myself clearly. Take care and thanks for all you do.  Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:56am
What if someone was to fill out the application on a "Jackson, Grant, or Benjamin?"  I'm just saying maybe you have not thought of all the options yet.  LOL  I'm sure what ever option you pick a great time will be had at the TDR.  The CFCT is like a family reunion where everyone likes "who" you brought and loves to hear a story about them. 
-Gaffer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 3:23am
Welcome Mr. Ongaro to the Primary list.  With this last change, I lost a returnee and gained a newby.  

The recommendations seem to all be in favor of option 1 for the lottery so far.  And with some very good reasons stated for keeping the lottery as it is.  Gaffer, I can't accept the Gentlemen you suggested because of a host of reasons.  The biggest reasons are that I don't want this to be a business, I want it to be a fun event for friends.  Charging a fee puts me in "business" mode as far as the state is concerned.  Then I would have to pay taxes, and pay much more for my permits, and have to follow lots more regulations, and possibly be inspected and audited.  Then I would need to hire a bookkeeper and a tax accountant, and keep detailed books on income and expenses.  NO THANK YOU!!!  

By relying primarily on donations, and raffle proceeds, to cover my expenses I stay out of "business" mode and stay in the "friends coming for a good time" mode.  And since the state has some expensive regulations governing raffles, and ours kinda skirts around the fee requirements by using some exceptions, we won't mention raffles anymore.  I use the donated funds to cover my costs for offering this event, and for making improvements that help the event.  This year I'm improving WIFI service in the shop so folks can send and receive emails or make wifi phone calls.  I'm also trying to get a tire changing machine so we won't have to break down tires by hand anymore.  
 
M38Mike
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52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64CJ5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 3:37pm
Thankfully the FCT is not "Trail Wheeling 70 year old Jeeps".  I am sure our Jeeps could do as well as those in this video.  Not so sure I would do as well.  There are places on the FCT that will test Jeep and driver and there are some places with bypasses.  For the most part we will not bend sheet metal. 
Get your Jeeps ready to roll down the road with out steering, braking or other problems.  Get your tool/parts kits,  coolers and all the other stuff you might need ready to go.  Hat, gloves and heavy coat at the ready because it can get cold quickly.  Make some lists so you will be ready to Jeep in the Colorado High Country.     
               Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2021 at 10:50am
To add to what Tom has said, "test fire" your jeep with plenty of road and off road mileage between now and the FCT so that all the bugs are worked out of the jeep. Don't bring a rig to Colorado High Country that is going to have problems if you can possibly help it. Spending time in the shop repairing something on your jeep while others are on the trail is not fun.

Sure, if you are on the trail and something goes South, everyone will pitch in to get you back the the Thirsty Dirt Ranch. Not every problem on the trail is something that can be worked out at home, but a lot of problems are. Help everyone have an enjoyable experience by making your rig as bullet proof as possible.

You guys have a fun ride this year. I will miss it.

46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mriceflinter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2021 at 7:26pm
One thing that will come up for the new people from lower altitudes will be tuning for this altitude. It happens every year and it is kind of hard to tune for altitude before you get here. Many of the drivers from up here know how to tune for it. If you are from lower altitudes don't be afraid to get together with some of us. You will be glad you did when your jeep runs better on the trails. If nothing else Mike can connect you with someone who knows. Don't be afraid, We do these tunes to our jeeps and run them all the time up here with no problems.    Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillysWally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2021 at 9:54pm
Good Evening Mike (mriceflinter):

So last year was my first trip to the TDR and the CFCT event.  When we got there, Mike Picard helped Daryl and I "tune" ours up for altitude by rotating the distributor, changing/advancing the timing to the maximum manifold vacuum pressure.  It was quick, relatively painless and appeared to work great.  I have two questions and an additional precaution.

First, do you have other tricks than just maximizing the manifold pressure?  And since this is not an air/fuel carb adjustment can us flat lander's do it in advance here at home and have the relative settings remain the same?  By relative settings I am speaking of the same advanced timing amount, i.e. degrees BTDC.  In other words if I set my spark advance to the maximum manifold vacuum here in PA, will that same distributor setting give me again the maximum manifold vacuum at the TDR -- granted those absolute numbers will be different?  I fully realize that the absolute numbers will be lower at 8,000 msl than here at 1500 feet.  Thoughts?

As far as suggestions go -- one big one for the new comers -- Don' bring a lot of regular alcohol gas with you, either in the jeep or in the Jerry can.  See if you can find some real gasoline that is alcohol free gas, before you leave home and fill up on that.  The alcohol does not like high altitudes.

If you cant find any local stations that sell the alcohol free premium gas, check with your small, local airport.  Sometimes they will sell you 100LL aviation gasoline which I guarantee you will have no alcohol in it!  I can assure you that those L134's will love it!

Regards,

Walter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mriceflinter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 12:26am
Walter,  Manifold pressure used to set the timing is probably the best way to set the timing if done right. The timing you get when setting the timing that way at PA altitude with manifold pressure will be different than the timing you get at TDR using the same method. The reason it works that way is that the fuel mix burns slightly slower at higher altitudes. For that reason you have to have the timing advanced further at altitude. That allows the burn in the cylinder to be completed at around TDC which gives you the maximum efficiency at that altitude. You can set your timing with manifold pressure where you live and it would be right for there but I wouldn't advance it for TDR until you get here. If timing is set on your jeep for TDR, there is a good chance you would get pre-ignition at your altitude and that would not be good for your engine! I hope that makes sense. Good luck, Mike  
 
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