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16x4.5 rims/wheels

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bight View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Feb. 2021 at 4:43pm
i am looking for four 16x4.5 rims in decent shape. i do not want ones that need repairing or blasting. no split rims.

i prefer matches in pairs, all four match is better. bare metal, primered, one decent coat of paint that can be cleaned and rattle can painted over and look reasonable is ok.

i am aware there are new repops out there but not interested unless the price is right. $150 each + ship for repops is not in my budget.

i am considering putting 6.0 x 16 tractor tires (agrijeep style) on 72586 (stock brakes, no lift, no spacers) and want to keep my NDTs intact to do swaps. i do not want rubbing to occur and i do not want to have to do a mod to prevent rubbing. 

the rims do not need to be restoration quality. Kelsey Hayes, Motor Wheel, M38 rims all ok. decent truck rims that do not need work and will fit without mods will work. 

i am located in Maine, work in NJ occasionally, willing to drive to pick up (CT, VT, PA, NY, NJ, DE, RI, MA, MD, OH?). i do not want to add significant cost to ship.

i am not a wheel/tire/rim expert but am reading a lot and getting closer to defining specifically what i want. any input/thoughts are appreciated. i have reached out to Mr. Coldwell for his opinion regarding the use of the tractor tires and his response was very positive and helpful as always. the myriad of options are a bit daunting and confusing.

the use will be driving on my property, mud, dirt, moderate/short duration steeps, snow, tree roots, farm fields, pulling rocks, stumps, etc. no rock crawling, highway driving, or icy roads. Maine goes heavy on salt, so i stay off the roads when salty. I can get around on my property without going on salted roads.

thanks for any assistance.


Edited by bight - 19 Aug. 2022 at 2:21pm
CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod)
the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BD1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb. 2021 at 11:53pm
I have some rims, although I don't think I have four matching 4-1/2". what I have have all been sandblasted and powder coated.  Some are better than others. I'll trade them one for one for the fabric doors.  I'll try and bring them down with me next weekend.  I get all of my rims sandblasted and powder coated before I paint them. It's the best way I know of to determine exactly what you've got.  Goodyear Commercial in Scarborough does it for $25/rim.
BD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb. 2021 at 12:16am
BD1, thanks!

as i stated, i do not require matches, just same size.

look forward to seeing you. if it helps any, i can meet you part way.
CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
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the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb. 2021 at 12:19am
btw, is BD1 any reference to the 70's aircraft?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BD1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb. 2021 at 1:09am
Nope, BD was a nickname from college, relates to the Doonesberry character, also my initials. I should be heading north this Friday afternoon. I may be pulling a trailer of rough sawn maple for my daughter. I'd be heading back south Sunday afternoon with an empty trailer and I could bring the rims.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb. 2021 at 1:34am
i will be looking forward to meeting you.
CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
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the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb. 2021 at 9:09pm
i am still on the hunt for 1 or 2,  4.5x16 rims in good condition. i got 3 nice ones from BD1 (thanks!).

optimally 1 would match this (but not required):






Edited by bight - 19 Feb. 2021 at 10:14pm
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the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb. 2021 at 9:56pm
Wheels in pic appear to be heavy duty 5”x16” with  pre 1957 disks.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb. 2021 at 10:01pm
they are 16x4.5



are these (pic below) HD? i am struggling to figure out all of the rim differences.




Edited by bight - 19 Feb. 2021 at 10:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb. 2021 at 11:24pm
I have not seen any before but you’d black wheels appear to be 4-1/2” x 16” heavy duty.
The 1/8” hole drilled into the area of the hub circle makes me think the wheels were assembled using heavy duty discs.
Kelsey Hayes used different gauges of steel to make various wheels. 
The standard wheels typically had 8 gauge discs (.128).
The various heavy duty wheels typically used 6 gauge discs (.162)
And depending on which specific wheel; the gauge of the rim does not always match that of the disc.

The red wheel has a creased disc and those were not used before/about 1957.

A KH wheel basically consists of two parts, the rim and the disc.

Put your wheel on a bathroom scale. The standard wheel should weigh about 19 pounds.



Edited by oldtime - 19 Feb. 2021 at 11:32pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 1:43am
it is 19 pounds

and thanks much for the info. more questions coming...


Edited by bight - 20 Feb. 2021 at 2:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 1:52am
some of you may have answers here that could help. i have sorta tried to consolidate 16 inch rim info gathered from this site and a few others. maybe if it could be verified and any more pertinent details added it would be worth putting up in Tech Answers and Questions. pardon me if any of this is inaccurate. just trying to piece this puzzle together.

here goes:

lots of questions start once i dug deep into finding info on the rims. sizes, makes, etc. there have been some informative threads here, but seemingly nothing that tells the whole story. 

here i am primarily referring to factory type original 16 inch rims (wheels).

solid rims (which i don't figure i am going to find) and the 4 "slot" (not sure that is the proper terminology).

there seems to have been two primary manufacturers, Kelsey-Hayes and Motor Wheel. then 4.0x16, 4.5x16, 5.0x16 ?? (and 15 inchers also).

Kelsey-Hayes has raised flat center. Motor Wheel rims have dimples around the lug hole.

90 degree (do not seem to be 90 degrees to me) and 45 degree interior slopes (shoulders) in various combinations?

640800 Rim and Disc, 16 x 4.50, Assembly
642053 Rim and Disc, 15 x 4.50, Assembly (Special equipment to accommodate 15 x 7.00 tires)

Width is between the vertical sides where the bead sits, and diameter is the overall diameter measured where the bead of the tire sits.

Center bore: 4.250 (diameter) and 5 bolts on 5.5" (diameter) bolt circle. 3.25" between centers of adjacent bolts.

there are rims with a 1/8 in. hole near one of the lug holes on some rims. what is this for exactly? was this only one specific manufacturer?

and did all early rims have countersunk (terminology?) lug holes?


Edited by bight - 21 Feb. 2021 at 7:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 1:59am
Kelsey-Hayes first pic:


Kelsey-Hayes and unknown heavy duty:


heavy duty:



Kelsey-Hayes:



Kelsey-Hayes:



unknown heavy duty with 1/8 in. hole



Motor Wheel ?:



Kelsey-Hayes (K-H) 5 inch heavy duty:




Edited by bight - 05 Apr. 2021 at 10:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 2:04am
then there are welded and riveted rims (some 2, some 3 rivets).

some discs curve all the way until they contact the rim and some have a "flat" area and others very rounded bulge (creased disc?) just where the disc contacts the rim.

discussion exists regarding heavy duty vs. normal rims?

then there is the matter of offsets?

then... M38 rims?

Kelsey-Hayes (K-H) heavy duty 5 inch (note 3 rivets):



unidentified heavy duty:



Kelsey-Hayes 3 rivets (but the other K-H has smoothed out surfaces?):



Motor Wheel (welded):




Edited by bight - 19 Aug. 2022 at 3:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 2:12am
this helps a lot:

oldtime wrote: (a) wheel basically consists of two parts, the rim and the disc.

if i can understand and be correct in the terminology, i can help myself and help you understand what i am asking.

then we can speak the same language and make some progress. and in this case, there are seemingly lots of variations in the rim and the disc.

thanks!
CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
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the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 3:11am
Backspace = The distance from back of the wheel to the wheel's mounting space, in inches.

Centerline = The wheel width divided by 2, in inches.

Offset = Backspace - Centerline, which will be positive or negative, in inches.

pulled from www.innerwebworldsomewhere

sounds good to a non-tire/wheel guy like me.

i am finding that i have rims that vary between (positive) .93 and .43 offset according to this formula

distance from back to mounting surface 3.56 (3 9/16) on some Kelsey-Hayes, 3.25 on some unidentified, and 3.75 on another unidentified spare i have.

this also seems like a simple enough image:





Edited by bight - 20 Feb. 2021 at 3:12am
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CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 3:27am
Alrighty.
I have a few minutes to mention some very basic concepts and terms.
First and foremost Jeeps were designed and built by Willys Overland, Willys Motors, Kaiser Jeep Corporation, American Motors Jeep Corporation and so on.
For convienience I will generally refer to them as “Jeep”.
They manufactured, assembled and kept records.
Every part of every assembly was numerically identified and cataloged.
I will reference specific part numbers as is required. 
And this multitude of parts and assemblies were all named.
To simplify I try only to use correct Jeep terminology and not my own nor GM’s nor any other.

So the Jeep has always undergone a state of change. 
And this change is generally referred to as progress.
This progress continues onward to date whether or not the changes produced a superior product or not.
So for each Jeep model and every vintage of that same model; Jeep developed what they called “Service Standards”.
The service standards were used to identify the specific  assemblies needed to build that Jeep.
Beyond the standards Jeep at times installed specific optional equipment at the factory.
And at the dealership “Jeep Approved Special Equipment” could be installed.
The later being products manufactured for jeeps and not manufactured by Jeep.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2021 at 3:35am
again thanks! you are helping immensely. i feel if i have the fundamentals straight, i can ask you (semi) intelligent questions. and better understand your expertise.

i do try very hard to search this site and use google to search it, but often become challenged due to the fact that the years go by and good threads and info become difficult to find.

uh, are payments required for this education?
CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod)
the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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