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Starter cranks fine... with ignition off... |
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ersatzS2 ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Dec. 2011 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 216 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 01 Aug. 2021 at 4:57pm |
So the fully restored to factory original #28289 is an absolute joy to drive. I've got one persistent problem: It cranks over pretty well when cold, and starts quickly, because, well at this point everything is brand new. However if for any reason it doesn't start immediately, after it is hot, I find the starter won't turn over the engine.
6V system Battery is fine. to test, I bought another. no difference. Here's the kicker: if I keep ignition switch off, it cranks just fine. As soon as I switch it on, it bogs and won't turn over. Somehow it feels like the ignition is taking too much amperage from the starter? There is no ballast resistor although it might be built into the coil, and in any case, the ballast resistor is there to route increased amperage to the ignition, then cut out after the starter stops... Ideas? I'm determined to keep the original 6V system, I've got other 6V vehicles and they crank just fine. ![]() |
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48willys ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 June 2007 Location: sw/ virginia Status: Offline Points: 1341 |
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My initial thought is the timing is advanced to much. With the ignition on, its firing before the piston can come to the top. I’d recheck the distributor advance weights and the overall engine timing. |
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1946 cj2a #28680
1948 chevy 3800 thriftmaster 1946-50's cj2a-3a farm jeep 1993 yj, aka the yj7 |
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TERRY ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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Second vote for premature ignition.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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cpt logger ![]() Member ![]() Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
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X3.
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Stev ![]() Member ![]() Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2391 |
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So - starts fine when cold and is an absolute joy to drive. When hot cranks over hard and does not want to start.
Trying to wrap my mind around this "puzzler". I wonder if you have a field coil in the starter that is bad. When the engine gets hot it fails and the starter is the issue.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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Bitz ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Dec. 2020 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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So not that smart about motors but trying to learn. If the motor fires prematurely why does it fire when not hot.
Bitz
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TERRY ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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Remember old movies, starting hand crank cars, the advance lever and throttle were set then car cranked. Advance needed to be adjusted to prevent preignition which caused the engine to rotate backwards, kicking back the crank and breaking the "crankers" arm. Here, the preignition kicks back against the starter and it can't rotate against it.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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ersatzS2 ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Dec. 2011 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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Thanks for noodling on this. The advanced timing theory is interesting, but I feel like I'd see other symptoms. It's not a question of the engine turning more slowly; the starter stops pretty much dead the instant the ignition switch is on. So I don't think it even has the chance to rotate enough for the points to close, early or not.
We've checked all the grounds, but I'm now wondering is there a short somewhere. I'd suspect the starter windings, except it cranks fine with the ignition off...
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Bitz ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Dec. 2020 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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Perfect. I guess I never realized that to hand crank you adjusted the advance. Recently watch a Brit movie from the 40s era and a few times they had to crank it over by hand. Of course they don’t show all the details
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TERRY ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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Look at videos on starting a model t ford. Retard advance, choke, throttle open some. As soon as it started, advance ignition. One video notes that if your model t had a starter, not retarding spark could break the Bendix gear or break teeth off the ring gear! And if hand cranked would kick back breaking arm, wrist, hand etc.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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a4cj2a77 ![]() Member ![]() Sponsor Member Joined: 03 Sep. 2012 Location: Seal Beach Ca. Status: Offline Points: 566 |
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Unplug coil wire and test cranking. That would take ignition out of the equation key on or off
Phil
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ndnchf ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Do you have another starter that you can swap in to see if there is a difference? (or borrow off a buddy's jeep?) That would save a lot of guess work.
BTW, where are you in VA? I'm in Fredericksburg. Edited by ndnchf - 04 Aug. 2021 at 9:43am |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ersatzS2 ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Dec. 2011 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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ndnchf: I'm in Norfolk.
Umm, guys... yep, timing waaaay advanced. Reset timing and problem seems to be resolved. Damn you guys are good.
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ndnchf ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Ok.
Glad you got it figured out.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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