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Pulling camshaft gear to change engine plate?

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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by dasvis dasvis wrote:

Originally posted by Adventure Van Adventure Van wrote:

Ok.  I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel and hopefully it's not a train comming.  Seriously, the cam gear is loose now, but the oil slinger is in the way.  What's the proceedure to remove the key on the crank to remove this slinger?  I have lightly tapped on the key and it hasn't moved yet.




 I normally use a small brass drift to avoid boogering up any threads, keyways, or keys....


A small brass drift is probably better.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 2:21pm
Put the correct size socket on the end of the oiler and back it out. (Lefty Loosey) The correct size hole in the oiler should be .040" or the same size as a #60 drill bit. Replace the oiler in the block making sure the oiler points to the space pointing between the where the two timing gears meet. A SMALL amount of #2 Permatex wouldn't hurt anything if placed on the oiler threads and NOT in the female threads of the block.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Adventure Van View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 2:26pm
Thanks again SE Kansas!  I will remove and check the oiler this evening.  Thanks again to everyone who gave their two cents to help me get this done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 2:58pm
If the gasket has a round hole and you want it to be lemon shaped you can trim it with a sharp knife or scissors. 
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 7:15pm
Thanks Oldpappy about the gasket information.

My crankshaft oiler has an orfice size much larger than .040 (#60 bit).  It is very close to a #50 (.070).  Looks like I need to try to source the correct part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep. 2021 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Adventure Van Adventure Van wrote:

Thanks Oldpappy about the gasket information.

My crankshaft oiler has an orfice size much larger than .040 (#60 bit).  It is very close to a #50 (.070).  Looks like I need to try to source the correct part.

Or braze that one up and drill a smaller hole.
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct. 2021 at 6:49pm
Your replacement front engine plate to swap is packaged and ready to ship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct. 2021 at 6:54pm
Thanks Ron.  I hope to have mine off this weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2021 at 7:49am
I appreciate this post. I'm going to change from a pickup truck front motor plate to a 2A plate. I felt through the 2 holes and the flat area the inside puller has to engage is not much. Like 1/8 inch of flat. When the engine is together and you pull one of the timing gears off, there is tension due to valve springs etc. I have ruined cam gears myself since the spiral action against the tension can get quite stiff. I plan on re-checking valves and installing a new copper head gasket that I now use instead of fiber. (I hate the felpro steel one sided SOB). I'm pulling all the valves, head, springs, distributor, and installing a new oil pump. I will pull the cam out and bypass all of your pain. I built this engine and it's on the stand still new. I can flip the engine over and let gravity keep the tappets out of the way of the cam lobes.  Much easier to do this all while out. I'll also check my valve face pattern with Dykem and lap if necessary. I sure felt pain seeing all your pictures. Good part is you will win this project. 

The other thought is offer BW cookies and a HBR to come and pop the gear off for me-------LOL Wink

PS----if you were to pull the valve springs and keepers, on a assembled engine, make sure and stuff rags in all the side chest drain holes so the keepers don't fall down into the camshaft or oil pan. ask me how I know this. Oilly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct. 2021 at 12:49pm
  “ The other thought is offer BW cookies and a HBR to come and pop the gear off for me-------LOL Wink

  Just bring it here, with the coffee and cookies, and I’ll do it! Big smile
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2021 at 10:20am
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

Originally posted by Adventure Van Adventure Van wrote:

Thanks Oldpappy about the gasket information.

My crankshaft oiler has an orfice size much larger than .040 (#60 bit).  It is very close to a #50 (.070).  Looks like I need to try to source the correct part.

Or braze that one up and drill a smaller hole.

Ok, I'm finally ready (3 months laterApprove) to reinstall the oiler and the time has come to deal with the too large of an oiler orifice issue.   My only brazing tools are for copper plumbing.  I have MAPP gas, not oxy/acetylene.  I also have a mig welder.  I'd appreciate advice on the best method to fill in the hole, before I drill the correct size hole.  Thanks!




Edited by Adventure Van - 11 Dec. 2021 at 10:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2021 at 10:47am
 You could tap it for a threaded plug and just drill another hole in it or on the next flat.  I would probably use the mig and weld it and redrill it.

    Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2021 at 12:20pm
Screw in an 1/8” pipe plug and forget about it 😎

Lee😉
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2021 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Lee MN Lee MN wrote:

Screw in an 1/8” pipe plug and forget about it 😎

Lee😉

What?  Really?  Not needed to oil the cam and crank gears?  ... but that's not what the TSM says to do?Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2021 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Adventure Van Adventure Van wrote:

Originally posted by Lee MN Lee MN wrote:

Screw in an 1/8” pipe plug and forget about it 😎

Lee😉


What?  Really?  Not needed to oil the cam and crank gears?  ... but that's not what the TSM says to do?Confused


My old engine ran for 30 years with none of the above issues, new motor has ran for 4 years with no issues, the old timer that showed me this trick has done it for decades with no issues, not saying it’s right, but it works 😬

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2021 at 6:20pm
  Some believe that the purpose of the oil filter draining into the front cover is to lubricate the timing gears. While I don’t agree that it’s the primary reason for the drain being there, it probably would do a good enough job. 
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec. 2021 at 7:20pm
I am with Bruce on this. I believe that the Willys engineers thought that since the oil has to get back into the sump, why not put it to use? It may as well lubricate the gears on the way to the sump.

The oil filter was an option in the early CJs. On the few I have seen that have no oil filter, there is no line feeding a nozzle to lube the gears. Does it make a difference? I doubt that any of us would notice any. However, if it is possible, all of my rigs get an oil filter, since the filter does make a difference, so I will never know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec. 2021 at 11:16pm
Just my 2 cents. Somebody ought to say it.
The manual says that .040 oil jet fitting is directly related to proper oil pressure (lubrication) for the #1 connecting rod bearing. The oil filter return line has zero to do with that conrod bearing. The .040 jet squirting the crank and cam gears might seem incidental (or overkill with the oil filter return line), but it seems to me the Willys engineers knew what they were doing by putting it there for the conrod bearing in the first place. And if they discovered it wasn't needed, wouldn't there be a service bulletin saying it was ok to plug?

Plugging the hole might be good luck for some folks and run for miles and miles and years and years with no trouble, but I'm not one of them. It's a $10 part, not expensive to have it there, and not hard to find one or re-drill the orifice to .040. Plugging it off seems needless for no apparent reason other than lazy? I bet back in the day when the jeep motor was new if you plugged it you'd void the warranty.

And if the oil filter was an option not taken (or somebody removed it) --- and the oil jet hole was also plugged --- what would lubricate the crank and cam gears? Good luck? Perhaps the real reason it's there is just for that case, we'll never know. Until then, I believe it's there for the conrod bearing.

It'd be interesting to find out if any professional engine builders experienced with Willys motors would say plugging that hole is ok or is something they'd do.




Edited by Ron D - 12 Dec. 2021 at 11:39pm
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