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Pulling camshaft gear to change engine plate? |
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Bruce W 
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Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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 Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 11:35am |
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Have you tried picking at it with an awl or an ice pick? It may be loose in the hole and can be turned out of there. If you can see it wiggle at all it’ll probably screw right out. You would be amazed at how many broken bolts I’ve removed this way.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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mbullism
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 5:30pm |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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cpt logger
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Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3040 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 5:43pm |
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I am with Joe DeYoung here Do Not hit it with a hammer! You might push the cam plug out of the back of the block that way. You really do not want that to happen. If there ever is a next time, either pull the starter & pry on the flywheel ring gear, or use the crankshaft bolt to turn the engine. Sometimes I can turn the engine by putting the rig in high gear & pushing the Jeep forward. YMMV. IHTH, Cpt Logger.
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 5:56pm |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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Adventure Van
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 9:25pm |
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Thank you Bruce W, cpt logger, DRM 101, Ron D, CDNA2A, Old Pappy, WeeWilly, Davis, Mbullism and Joe DeYoung, Terry, S.E.Kansas and Stev!
The taste of victory!  I really appreciate all of the coaching and information! There are a lot of cumulative years of experience here and it shows. So after filtering all of the comments, here is what I did. Hopefully, this might help the next guy. First, I alligned the dots on the gears using a screwdriver on the flywheel with the starter removed, as recommended. Worked great. I have no idea how I didn't think of that. If I had, I wouldn't have been in this predicament. I went to the hardware store and picked up an extractor set and fresh drill bit. The bolt is 3/8, so I went with 5/32 drill bit. I used a 1/2 bit that I already had to find the center of the broken bolt. This worked great. Thanks for the tip on that one. The 1/2 bit with drill just fit in between the frame and cam bolt. In fact, it applied the perfect amount of pressure. Next, I used the 5/32 bit and drilled about 3/8 deep. It came pretty close to center, not perfect. The extractor worked perfectly. There was no pressure on the threads as predicted. I couldn't get it to move with a pick, or anything before trying all of this.       Next, a not as great update on the cam gear...  Edited by Adventure Van - 15 Sep. 2021 at 9:29pm |
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Adventure Van
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 9:45pm |
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Sooo as mbulism wrote: "...it's awesome practice for the next one and there will be a next one."
After reveling in the thrill of victory, I taste the angony of defeat quickly. Feeling confident after the bolt extraction, I figure that I'll use Bruce's method. Makes sense. Besides, I only own 3 arm wheel pullers, and not the 2 arm variety, as suggested. Put pressure, just a little pressure on two sides from behind the gear and tap the bolt in the cam and it should go pop and just come off. I'm feeling lucky. Of course it will. Well, no it didn't. That's ok. I didn't drive the cam through the back of the engine, so thats good. Next, I slowly pull out the flat bars that I have carefully wedged behind the cam gear and against the engine plate. Next thing I notice...   I chipped the fiber gear. It's made of fiber and not steel. Imagine that. Does my engine have osteoporosis? Edited by Adventure Van - 15 Sep. 2021 at 9:58pm |
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Ron D
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Joined: 27 Oct. 2019 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1438 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 10:18pm |
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The Docs say that break was predictable (called "brain fart") when using a puller on fiber gear teeth, not osteoporosis. Besides access to the hidden bolts, those 2 big holes in the gear next to the center bolt are there for the puller. There's a nice illustration of the puller on them holes in the manual (you do have the manual don't you?). You might have to rig a common puller to grab them because nobody seems to make the correct puller (shown in the manual) anymore. Anybody making one could make a small killing (you machinists out there interested?). While you're at it, you might want to check the orifice
(hole) diameter in the oiler fitting seen in your last photo. The original
Willys diameter for the L134 was .070 but was later changed to .040 to enable better oil pressure
on the front crank bearing. You can buy a .040 oiler for relatively cheap ($10)
or you can weld up the .070 hole and drill it down to .040 using machinist drill
bit (number 60 if I recall, might be 50). Your F134 should have .040 from the factory --- trust, but verify while you have it exposed.
Edited by Ron D - 15 Sep. 2021 at 10:24pm |
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1951 M38
1951 M100 |
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Rus Curtis
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Joined: 25 Mar. 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1733 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 10:50pm |
#4. I haven't seen the actual puller W-172 so I can't say how close this one is. Haven't used mine yet (not in a hurry!) but really like the way it's designed. In my past attempt (failure) of a 2-jaw puller, Joe's seems like it would provide a better bite.
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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Ron D
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Joined: 27 Oct. 2019 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1438 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 10:57pm |
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Had no clue it's already been done. Can you please post a photo of yours or should I contact the machinist? Thank you!
Edited by Ron D - 15 Sep. 2021 at 11:00pm |
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1951 M38
1951 M100 |
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Bruce W
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Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 10:57pm |
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I guess maybe that’s partly my fault. I didn’t tell you not to pry on the teeth. Sorry about that. It looks like you did gain some on it though.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Rus Curtis
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 11:03pm |
Ron, Mine is at the bottom of my "parts" bin. I'm betting Joe has images of all his stuff.
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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Adventure Van
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 11:04pm |
 Edited by Adventure Van - 15 Sep. 2021 at 11:06pm |
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Oldpappy
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Posted: 15 Sep. 2021 at 11:57pm |
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Don't feel too bad, most of us, besides Bruce have busted a few of these.
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If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Bruce W
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Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 1:19am |
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I can’t say I’ve never busted one, but it’s been a while. I learned from the ones I did. I haven’t busted one in a while. I could have mentioned that you need to put pressure on the solid part, not the teeth. Now it’s busted, you don’t have to worry about it. Get after it.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Adventure Van
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 1:04pm |
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Ok. I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel and hopefully it's not a train comming. Seriously, the cam gear is loose now, but the oil slinger is in the way. What's the proceedure to remove the key on the crank to remove this slinger? I have lightly tapped on the key and it hasn't moved yet.
Also, someone mentioned checking the size of the oiler at the crank. I haven't read up on this yet, but is removal as simple as backing it out with a slotted screwdriver? Do I need to count the turns, or anything like that? Sorry for the rushed post, I'm trying to keep my day job.  |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
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Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 1:20pm |
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Lightly tap on the end of the key from the end of the crankshaft in an upward motion with a small diameter punch and that end of the key should unseat itself. In other words, the punch should run parallel to the crankshaft axis. A series of light taps. Be careful not to damage the threads on the end of the crankshaft while doing this.
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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dasvis
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Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 1:48pm |
I normally use a small brass drift to avoid boogering up any threads, keyways, or keys....
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1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty" 1964 Thunderbird convertible ..... & one of them moves under it's own power!! |
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Adventure Van
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Posted: 16 Sep. 2021 at 1:55pm |
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Thanks SE Kansas. The cam gear is out!
I'm wondering if there is any significance of my lemon shaped hole in the engine mounting plate? I know there are at least two styles. One is round and the other is lemon shaped. I think I ordered the wrong gasket. Also, if anyone has any input on the removal of the crank oiler described below? Some one said that I should check it since I have gone this far.  |
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TERRY wrote: