Starter or solenoid not working? |
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Jeff J
Member Joined: 12 Mar. 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 441 |
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I haven’t read the entire thread but after reading that it wouldn’t start after running but did start after charging, the first question that came to my mind was: Is the charging system working? I got stranded once because I threw a belt and didn’t know it. No idea how many miles I drove before the battery couldn’t keep the engine running anymore.
The next thought was it could be something temperature related. Works fine cool but not so well warm. Bad connections both internal and external to components could become temperature sensitive.
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ajax25
Member Joined: 28 July 2018 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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Damn that’s a lot of questions logger haha. I love the knowledge on this forum! Those are fusible links, I know one goes to the key, not 100% where the others go. I know I checked them when I had my previous wiring issue but I don’t remember haha. It is 12v and Im definitely going to clean the connections on the solenoid. I have checked it a couple of times in the past few days and the Jeep fires right up. However if it sits for a couple of weeks I typically have a weak to dead battery and in the winter it can happen overnight so that’s all leading me to think my battery is just old and not holding much of a charge and likely just needs to be replaced. I don’t know when that battery was out in the jeep and there’s no date on it. I do know its at least 5 years old because I haven’t replaced it but it’s probably much older than that.
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ajax25
Member Joined: 28 July 2018 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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Damn thing just did it to me again, after the other day once the battery charged up it fired right up, I’ve driven it a couple of times since then with no issues. Fired right up again this morning and I drove it about 15 miles to come play some morning basketball shut it off and immediately tried to start it again and nothing. Voltage gauge shows 10 and it was between 10-12 when I left.
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TERRY
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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Between 10-12 is not normal. Should be charging around 14.2V. !2v is a significantly discharged battery.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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ajax25
Member Joined: 28 July 2018 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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Yeah I’m just surprised that it would fire right up this morning no problem and then be dead when I get to my destination? Weird, I definitely have determined I need a new battery though, had a buddy push start me this morning to get home haha
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TERRY
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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What is voltage when engine is running?
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BOULDER 48 2A
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ajax25
Member Joined: 28 July 2018 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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10-11 which I know is low but I guess my battery is just to weak to charge which makes sense but for it to drain down to dead when running seems odd to me. What would causing that? The only thing pulling juice would be headlights and a cigarette lighter that is only on when the key is on and I didn’t have the headlights on this morning at all.
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3191 |
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Check the output on your generator or alternator. It might not be putting out enough charge to keep the battery from running down during driving. Keep in mind that the headlights and cig lighter are not the only things drawing current. The big one would be the coil. The brake lights and tail lights...not so much.
When a battery is worn out, it is worn out. It will not take a full charge because the plates in the battery are used up. It might get just enough charge to start it once or even twice, but it won't take more of a charge than the old plates inside it will allow. Time for a new battery. |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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ajax25
Member Joined: 28 July 2018 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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Hmm I’m thinking this could be part of the problem, it runs from the alternator to the solenoid. Could probably still use a new battery but this could explain it not charging while driving
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3191 |
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That could be the problem...or at least part of the problem...
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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TERRY
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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That could definitely be the problem, if it is the alternator output wire. Otherwise you need to be testing the charging system. It should still put out proper voltage if the battery is fubar.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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cpt logger
Member Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
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That is the yellow butt connector that I was asking about. Fix this & re-test what the battery voltage is with the engine running above 1000 RPM. It should be above 14 volts. If it is equal to or less than what the battery voltage is without the engine running, your charging system needs attention. Most batteries last about 5-7 years, so yours is suspect, but give it a chance. No battery will continue to start the Jeep without a good charging system. Even a new battery can not do that.
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Jeff J
Member Joined: 12 Mar. 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 441 |
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A vehicle won’t run forever without a charging system. The ignition, lights and radio all pull power and will kill a battery. I got stranded one day out working because I left the radio on for 4 hours. Just long enough the F150 wouldn’t start to get me home. Older incandescent bulbs draw a lot of juice. Gauges draw juice. I have never looked into how much an ignition system will draw but draw it does. It’s not surprising to me that it would start run a few minutes then not start. A few years after the radio incident, my alternator light came on about a mile from work. I drove it the 5 miles home that evening thinking I would hit the parts store in the morning and replace the alternator at work. It didn’t start that morning. That was about 6 miles total (4 on the highway) without headlights or radio and only one start on a battery I would have thought was fully charged when the light came on.
If I am not using sealed connections I like to put some silicone (RTV) on the ends of connectors to keep moisture out. Wires also need some strain relief coming out of connectors. That smaller red wire connected to the positive battery post has bare wire showing where it’s kinked over at the connector. That’s really low rent Bubba maintenance and it won’t take long for it to fail. I quit using cheap auto parts store crimp connectors years ago because of their short life span. I use double crimp connectors where the bare wire gets crimped while the insulation gets crimped right next to it (built in strain relief) using a ratcheting crimper built for the task. Some of the best money I ever spent. Never had one fail in 25-30 years. Pliers, vises and hammers have no place when crimping wires except where required to use an actual crimping tool. I don’t even like the cheap parts store crimpers.
Edited by Jeff J - 18 June 2022 at 7:36am |
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Steelyard Blues
Member Joined: 09 Oct. 2017 Location: Reno, NV Status: Offline Points: 1500 |
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I would look at this as an opportunity to look at your wiring and make some corrections.
First off, I really do not know why people have starter solenoids on these Jeeps. They did not come with them originally and most of the time they look like a rat's nest of wire with a bunch of lousy connection. Often, they seem to be mounted in the worse place. The floor starter functions just fine. Obviously, you have had a 12v conversion. So there may be a lot of unnecessary wires laying around from the old generator. Those are a problem just waiting to happen. It looks like you have a GM alternator that needs to be electrically excited to operate. Am I seeing it correctly that the two wires are merging into the one connector? Not necessarily wrong, but it is generally recommended to have it a little further from the alternator to get a better sense of the voltage. The gauge of the red wire appears to me to be much larger than necessary. It just needs some volts from the ignition switch to tell the alternator to charge. Depending how it is wired, the connection may need a diode. I don't mind the standard crimp connections, but I don't trust them as is. I remove the plastic cover. I crimp the wires but then solder them together. After a rinse with brake clean, I then shrink tube over the connection. You can get thick wall shrink tube and some with a glue that makes them water proof. If done right, they almost look factory. Also, you can buy the original asphalt cover. My original harness was frayed, spliced cut up junk. I removed it and spent a day on the bench copying it. I spent probably $40 on the project. I now know every connection and have zero electrical issues. It is often better to spend some effort and time to get it correct so that you can enjoy the Jeep. Micah |
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1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981 1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577 |
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Jeff J
Member Joined: 12 Mar. 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 441 |
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If you are going to peel the crimp connectors, solder then cover with glue and heat-shrink then you may want to look into solder sleeves.
Generally speaking, I don’t trust soldered connections. A few years ago I had to cut a bunch of them out of an airplane. About 30 minutes into every flight I would lose all electrical power. After chasing the problem for a month or so I finally just replaced every soldered joint on the airplane with a quality crimp and the problem went away. I picked up a 73 Wagoneer one year really cheap because it wouldn’t run. Guess what was wrong… You guessed it, bad solder joints. A bad crimp can be spotted and corrected, not always the case with solder. A crimp covered with solder can hide a problem and make the connection less tolerant to vibration.
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ajax25
Member Joined: 28 July 2018 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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Yeah it definitely feels as if there is more in there than necessary. I have pulled a few wires out of there already that were obviously not connected to anything and it had an old cab that barely worked in it when I got it, pulled that out and the wires. I’m a total newbie to most of this so I worry a little about removing the wrong wires then being totally lost and my jeep being out of commission haha. I’m not sure why there are so many wires, the only thing outside of the norm is some small fog lights. Well I have since wired in a heater and a cigarette lighter but I simply replaced both of those with new wires in the same places.
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ajax25
Member Joined: 28 July 2018 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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So just now after having the trickle charger on the battery for a full day the indicator on it red green light which means it’s just now monitoring a charged battery. I left the charger connected. Started the jeep, let it run for about 5 min and now the indicator light has turned red which means it’s now charging my battery again. Now I’m wondering if it’s my alternator, I don’t have any loose belts as there is only one connected it directly and I can see it make the alternator spin. I repaired that wire but it’s not charging the battery like it should yet the battery will take a charge. Onviously my battery is still in need of replacement as it shouldn’t get weaker that fast, well maybe I guess if the jeep electrical is running if the battery alone it might right? That would explain why it would fire right up at home after being charged and then be dead by the time I get somewhere or back home after a trip to town and back wouldn’t it?
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Do you have an autozone or o’reilly’s in your town? They can check your alternator in or out of the vehicle, I think. And go from there after checking alternator
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Mike in AZ
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