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Another Crank Pully Issue

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wfopete View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Aug. 2022 at 10:34pm


While fussin' with my L134 I noticed the crank pully would rotate freely about, umm, say 10 degrees, back and forth on the crankshaft.  I figure that the keyway is possibly sheared, hammered from time or maybe the pulley nut is just loose. I've never had the pulley off the engine so I don't know.  I've seen folks use Red Loctite when mounting the pulley to the crankshaft.  The nut securing the pulley doesn't appear to be loose and I have the correct size socket to tighten the nut (if it is actually loose).  The inner pully sheave is sitting pretty close to the timing cover as is and I suspect if the nut tightens at all, it won't be much.  I plan to use a extension and 1/2" electric  impact wrench to tighten the pully up.   

Or is there something I should be checking before pull that impact trigger?


Edited by wfopete - 07 Aug. 2022 at 8:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 3:36am
Yes that nut should be tightened to a specified torque to set the backlash in the crank. The spec's would be in the service manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 6:56am

By backlash are you referring to the thrust bearing clearance? 

The only spec I can find is 65-70 ft/lbs and I believe that is for the crankshaft "torque wrench pull" used when replacing main bearings.
 
I'm not finding a specific torque value for the pulley nut.


Edited by wfopete - 07 Aug. 2022 at 8:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 8:36am
The pulley shouldn't rotate on the shaft, so I would remove it and check for a sheared pin, as you suspected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 11:55am
X2.

The pulley should not turn on the crankshaft, even if the nut is loose or even missing. Use the torque specs, you do not want the nut too loose & you also do not want it too tight. You can damage the threads on either, or both, of the nut or the crankshaft. Bad, very bad.

Note: It is bad practice to use an extension with an impact driver. Not only does it reduce the torque of the driver, but unless the extension is manufactured with impact use in mind, it can break apart when used with an impact driver. This is a major safety issue. I have seen this happen, luckily they were able to save his eye. Thus, when you absolutely have to use an extension with an impact driver, be sure to use an extension that is specifically designed for that use. Do not use a "regular" extension.

Please also wear some kind of face shield, or at least safety glasses whenever you use an impact driver.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 12:08pm

Got it ^^^

But is 65 ft/lbs correct for the torque number?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 2:02pm
Where did the 65 foot pounds come from? I don’t see it in the Universal manual nor the military manuals I have checked. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 3:03pm

Originally posted by Jeff J Jeff J wrote:

Where did the 65 foot pounds come from? I don’t see it in the Universal manual nor the military manuals I have checked. 

Sorry that is the only crank related torque number I could find in my manual and it does not say for the pulley.  That is why I'm asking here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 5:40pm
I haven’t pulled one apart yet. Every reference to the crankshaft pulley nut I saw just said to “tighten” it. No mention of a torque value. It appears the only method of getting it tight is to pull the oil pan (I wouldn’t want to be banging on my bearings and wrist pins with a rattle gun). I am curious what the engine builders have done with it since there doesn’t appear to be a published number. I wouldn’t think the torque would have to be that high because the woodruff key would carry the load… unless the shaft is a taper and the key just indexes it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 5:49pm

My understanding is it is NOT a tapered but a straight shaft and unlike a tapered shaft the keyway may play a critical role in preventing the pulley from moving on the shaft.

Since mine has "free play" I'm not getting good vibes from what I'm seeing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 6:50pm
It is not a tapered shaft. I just used the "goodentight" method. I couldn't find a torque value either.

If the pulley has any rotational movement something is wrong. The woodruff key could be sheared or the hub of the pulley could be worn. Be extra careful removing the key. Tapping with a pin punch on one end of the key should roll it out of the slot on the crankshaft. Before installing the new key on the crankshaft slide the pulley on the shaft to check the fit. It should slide on smooth all the way to the bottom without any side play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2022 at 10:07pm
  I had one that the key way on the crank was wallowed out and the pulley would rock back and forth.  I squared up the key way using a dremel with a cut off wheel and made a custom key to fit and it worked fine.

    Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug. 2022 at 5:38am

Originally posted by WeeWilly WeeWilly wrote:

  I had one that the key way on the crank was wallowed out and the pulley would rock back and forth.  I squared up the key way using a dremel with a cut off wheel and made a custom key to fit and it worked fine.

    Jim

I think that's what I'm going to find too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug. 2022 at 12:59pm
I would use the "Industry Standard" torque specs for this nut. If you know the thread diameter & pitch of the treads, you can look it up. They are available on the internet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug. 2022 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

I would use the "Industry Standard" torque specs for this nut. If you know the thread diameter & pitch of the treads, you can look it up. They are available on the internet.

  I would be careful doing that because the nuts are not standard size in thickness. The hand crank nuts are real thinner yet.

    Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug. 2022 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by WeeWilly WeeWilly wrote:

Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

I would use the "Industry Standard" torque specs for this nut. If you know the thread diameter & pitch of the treads, you can look it up. They are available on the internet.

  I would be careful doing that because the nuts are not standard size in thickness. The hand crank nuts are real thinner yet.

    Jim


Good point. I did not realize that the nut is thinner than they usually are. 
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