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Overdrive Question

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92889 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug. 2022 at 2:51pm
Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug. 2022 at 2:54pm
I’ve had half dozen genuine 29 tooth rear shift Warns with the red labels and none ever had provision for pins.
All like this one and I presume the same as AA concerning the thrust.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug. 2022 at 3:00pm
I am not doubting you Ken, but the one I had was indeed a genuine Warn 29 tooth unit with the model number showing tooth count on the black metal label. It was an early front shift version. I thought I had some pictures of it, but must have deleted them after I sold the unit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug. 2022 at 3:02pm
Saturn OD schematic

Saturn OD parts list































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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug. 2022 at 7:48pm
That’s great info thanks guys.

I think what I have is the spacer washer for a unit that took screws that has been modified to accept pins as the holes in my unit are not threaded.

Unfortunately the holes in the spacer washer do not line up with the holes in the unit. Maybe a bit of freehand drilling?

So options are to fix the holes in the spacer washer to position the pins better or tap the holes in the unit to accept screws.




Edited by 92889 - 12 Aug. 2022 at 7:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug. 2022 at 7:54pm
It will work fine without the pins, or with only one pin. I think they are just to hold the nose cap in place during assembly. Once the unit is installed and the nut torqued to spec the pins serve no purpose I can think of, and it can't go anywhere. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 11:33am

You are probably right that pins are adequate. However I would like the drill and tap the holes to accept screws. I have decided on this because the spacer washer I have is set up for screws. The modification made to it to accept pins was poorly done and it bothers me that things don’t line up. I don’t disagree that it will “probably” be ok but that’s the kind of thing that keeps me up at night. 

I ran into a bit of a snag yesterday. I attempted to drill out the holes so I could tap them for screws. Wouldn’t you know it but the tip of the drill bit broke off in the hole. 

I think it’s time for a trip to the local machine shop to sort this for me. 

In the meantime I’m going to put the transmission back together as it was without the overdrive for now. 

Does anyone have a torque value for the castellated nut that holds the main shaft gear in place? The manual just says to “install and secure”. I know it takes a cotter pin. And it was not torqued on there very much when I removed it. I can’t find a value for this nut. Maybe just tighten it down till seated and the cotter pin holes align with the nut slots?

Photo is from when I removed it so I could install the overdrive.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 12:57pm
If you mess up the planetary housing attempting to drill it for something it doesn't need, don't worry, they only cost about $385 for the bare housing, almost $700 for the assembled unit. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Oldpappy Oldpappy wrote:

If you mess up the planetary housing attempting to drill it for something it doesn't need, don't worry, they only cost about $385 for the bare housing, almost $700 for the assembled unit. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:12pm
My advice, don't mess with the pins.

I took pictures of NOS Warn and Husky, and whether they had just two pins, two pins plus two cap screws, or just 2 cap screws, they are just an assembly aid.

The photo below shows what RickG referred to as a washer, part 56 in the assembly diagram.
If you put number 56 on last before part 62 as it instructs you to, without the pins or cap screws, the washer drops down on the mainshaft and gets pinched between the planetary hub and the transmission output shaft.

I always put the thin washer (56) on first, then the radial bearing (57) second, then the thick race (58),  then the cap. If the pins are damaged, I simply omit them. Assembly grease holds them in place AND if the race does drop down, it is so thick YOU WILL KNOW IT.

If you do choose to install the this washer last, you will know if it drops down during assembly, firstly that the 'stickout' will be too big, secondly, if you rotate the the hub after torquing the drive nut, it will rise and fall as you rotate it.












Edited by Joe Friday - 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:34pm
Definitely worth consideration.

I still think I need to get the broken drill bit out.

The tip of the bit shown on the right is in the hole marked in red.





I’ll discuss it with the machinist. He’s a good guy that I trust.

But you’re  probably right, I should just have left well enough alone. I’m still not satisfied with the “fix” done before I got it and would not have been comfortable installing it as it was.

So please don’t judge me. I know I messed up with the broken drill bit. I could have kept that to my self but I’m sharing so maybe others don’t make the same mistake.

I’ll get it sorted. Hopefully at not to great a cost. But that’s on me and I’m ok with that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:34pm
PS, in the picture of your transfer case, at the 6:00 position I see what appears to be  brass  floating in the lube?

You may want to be sure to use GL1 gear lube. You may be eating your synchros.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:35pm
I know I sure would not even attempt to tap into that case hardened steel with such a small thread size. No way.
Perhaps you can remove the high speed steel bit with a carbide bit.


Edited by oldtime - 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:37pm
Joe,

Thanks for that as well.
Maybe I’ll just assemble it without pins.

Still going to talk to the machinist and see if I can get the broken drill bit cleared out.

Thanks for the great info.

Appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 92889 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:43pm
*** EDITED because I do have GL1 in there ***

Yes I also see brass in the lube. 

I used this product from Tractor Supply.
I see it’s a GL 1.

Maybe a good time to flush the transmission as well.






Edited by 92889 - 13 Aug. 2022 at 3:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 1:51pm
Tractor supply also sells the same jug labelled Traveller Ford Tractor Transmission lube. It's GL1 MIneral oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 2:32pm
i continue to be confused regarding lubrication for transmission/transfer case/overdrive. service manual states GL-4.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug. 2022 at 2:53pm
Rick "Metalshaper" has a video of a T-84 that the owner used GL-4 in against his advice. You should watch it.

Some brands of GL-4 lube claim the additives are safe for yellow metal, but why risk it? 

Every time the topic comes up there will be opinions from both sides, but the I know GL-1 is safe, and don't see a need for the additives in the first place. 
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