Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Off-Topic area
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Koenig winch value
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Koenig winch value

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 2240
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Koenig winch value
    Posted: 03 Feb. 2023 at 10:19pm
There are a couple of Koenig PTO winches for sale on the local Craig's list. Both are sold as just the winch, no PTO or shafts; and neither post lists which model they are but they both look similar as the standard Koenig winch seen on old jeeps.

One winch has cable on the spool and a roller fairlead, the other has a bare spool and no fairlead. Neither has the steel frame around the winch. The one with cable is $400 and the other $300. This seems a bit pricey but so does everything these days.

A PTO winch is a bucket list thing for me on my jeep and I would love to have one on my rig. What price range should something like this be within?
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
Back to Top
oldtime View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep. 2009
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 4131
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb. 2023 at 12:04am
With Koenig’s in particular it depends a lot on condition because very many have damaged engage levers.
There are many things to consider with a Koenig PTO 100.
There are also electric Koenig winches.
Is this an up right “A” frame or a low slung version.
RH or LH worm drive etc.
I have several unusual Koenig, Ramsey and Braden winches.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

Back to Top
CMCSSeabee View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Aug. 2018
Location: S. Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CMCSSeabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb. 2023 at 11:38am
A little high for my area, but not ridiculous. As long as the cases are not cracked/broken, they can be rebuilt fairly easily.
Back to Top
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 2240
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb. 2023 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

With Koenig’s in particular it depends a lot on condition because very many have damaged engage levers.
There are many things to consider with a Koenig PTO 100.
There are also electric Koenig winches.
Is this an up right “A” frame or a low slung version.
RH or LH worm drive etc.
I have several unusual Koenig, Ramsey and Braden winches.
Good questions Oldtime, I don't know the answers. Between the two posts there are three photos, and not super helpful ones:
1
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
Back to Top
oldtime View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep. 2009
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 4131
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb. 2023 at 1:49pm
Good !
The cable looks good, fairly new without kinks so that saves you about $100
The engage lever is unbroken which is an excellent sign.
This is a low mount version Koenig model 100.
That is superior (in my mind)to the “A “ frame design.
The Koenig roller fairlead is a bit of a weak design compared to some other fairleads. However they are not often found and this one looks to be in very good condition.
Winch spooling direction is generally not a big issue and direction ( top wind vs bottom wind) cannot be determined without having the winch on hand.
$400 is not a bad price for this but you will want to source a model 51 PTO (for front mounted operation) and your about as well off to make new pto shafts and yokes. Custom fitting of drive shafts is not uncommon depending on your particular CJ’s drivetrain components.

The winch will need be mounted in a steel cradle. The cradle may incorporate the front bumper as part of the design.
Also You will most likely need to add frame horn stiffners to your Jeep frame.

In general pto winches are superior to electric winches if they are expected to get a lot of use. Also galvanized steel aircraft cable is superior for the same reason and also when they are used under dirty conditions.


Edited by oldtime - 04 Feb. 2023 at 2:00pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

Back to Top
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 2240
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb. 2023 at 6:53pm
Thanks Oldtime this is great information!

I might contact the seller and take a look at the one with cable, it's close by. I see that it has the handle and the brake pad for the spool, but it looks to me that the lube port is next to the spool. 

Can I assume that the winch is oriented in the photo with the fairlead on the front? With the cable wrapped that way it looks to be a top wind? I'm also assuming the drive shaft would connect on the right side in the photo? Can these parameters be changed by turning the gearbox around and/or shuffling parts around? The reason I ask is that my jeep has a Saginaw steering box and no route for a shaft to take with all the stuff in the way. I'm curious if a PTO winch could be hydraulically powered on a jeep (like a tow truck)?

Are there any good ways to check a winch out on the floor (what to look for?) like this? The seller states it's in good working order.
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
Back to Top
oldtime View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep. 2009
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 4131
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb. 2023 at 7:07pm
The engage lever is almost always positioned in the right (passenger) side of a Willys.
But that’s not set in stone.
These winches are totally versatile in that the pto shaft can also be run up the other side of Jeep if so desired.
That said yes this winch certainly appears to be a top wind version as is with pto shaft currently running up the left (drivers) side.
Without dis-assembly there is no way to determine exact condition.
The pto input should easily turn by hand.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

Back to Top
drm101 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Dec. 2012
Location: Clarkston, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1468
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb. 2023 at 9:08am
I sold one a few years back for similar $ so the price is right. They are easy to take apart and as Ken stated, easy to re-configure. You can buy PTO to winch shafts from McMaster-Carr. I found a nice u-joint on Ebay. I had to buy those when I added an overdrive to this CJ5 I am assembling. I always consider part of the price I am paying for something like this as a lesson. When you buy it, even if it needs work, you can take it apart and figure out how it works, which has to be worth at least $150. 
Dean
'47 CJ2A "Mud Hen"
The less the Power the More the Force
Back to Top
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 2240
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb. 2023 at 8:02pm

So I bought a winch today but not the one pictured in the earlier post. Turns out the seller dabbles in collecting and rebuilding them. The one for sale came off his personal jeep and claimed it worked well; the shaft turned easily and seemed sound to me. A two piece driveshaft was also part of the deal. We agreed on a price and when loading it up, I noticed something that looked like a crack in a casting. The seller claimed he didn’t notice this and offered my money back, or…another winch he had on his bench. He had one that he had gone through and replaced bearings, seals, powder coated spool etc,that he was going to use for his own use. He offered this one to me with some parts swapped; I thought this was fair.




When I got the winch home I noticed a similar line in the casting in the same spot where we noticed the crack on the other winch. It showed on both sides of the casting identically. It’s not a crack, but a mold seam from the die casting. So maybe the other winch wasn’t really cracked, but just had a cruder casting edge- or maybe it really was a crack and I just lucked out.



He had some custom input shafts made that have a ¾” hex on the front- he said you could put a socket on this and still winch if your vehicle was completely disabled. It does work as I put an air ratchet on it to transfer the cable onto the spool. I gave $350 for all of this today, I was OK with that.


47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
Back to Top
jhg View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07 Nov. 2016
Location: colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 917
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb. 2023 at 8:36pm
I would pay that all day long for a Koenig in that condition.
Here is mine waiting to be gone over and installed.





1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
Back to Top
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 2240
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb. 2023 at 8:57pm
Picked up a PTO gearbox today from the winch seller. I had it in my head that a shaft wouldn’t make it through the forest of stuff in the way, but if the exhaust is re-routed I think it may work. The seller went through this unit too as he was going to use himself. It’s got new bearings, seals, and chain.


47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
Back to Top
dasvis View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2019
Location: Salem, Oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 1516
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb. 2023 at 10:35pm
A PTO winch just seems right in an old flatty
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
Back to Top
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 2240
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb. 2023 at 11:23am
Yes, who doesn’t like pulling levers and watching things spin around?
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.