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No start, backfire thru carb

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SeeJayTwo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeeJayTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 12:11am
Update, cleaned all manifold channels. Dry. Another set of points and condenser. Starter has not been lasting long enought to test. Kept thinking starter was getting hot or battery losing charge. Then it basically died. Finally took starter apart. One positive brush wire was only on by a thread. Refurbishing starter. Brush arriving 15 May, Monday. Hope this will fix the starter so I can fix the motor.
Took plate out of dizzy to examine. Looked for possible spark leaks and etc. Cleaned and checked the insulated feedthru. Will install an inline spark tester as advised. 




Edited by SeeJayTwo - 15 May 2023 at 12:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeeJayTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 1:16am
Oldpappy, Cpt Logger and all the other folks. You were right, I was wrong. I don't know how I was fooled. 
After all the ignition components I replaced and all the testing. I decided it had to be fuel. But gas and starter fluid didn't work. So I thought it had to be all that soaking IO did or valves. Even though Oldpappy said, can't be. So I tooK the head off to take a look. Nothing wrong. Really fresh motor as Oldpappy and others said. So I hand crank, watching the pistons, the valves, the fly wheel and the rotor. The fly wheel mark comes in window on no. 2 and 3 cylinder TDC. What is the recommendation to fix?


Edited by SeeJayTwo - 28 May 2023 at 2:13am
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Bruce W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:13am
  For now, leave it be. Use #2 or 3 to set your timing.  Remember, don’t forget, make a note. Write on the firewall or bottom of the hood, “Flywheel 180* off - use #2 or #3 to set timing”. In the future, when you have the engine or transmission out, you can correct it. Then, don’t forget to erase your note. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeeJayTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:16am
thanks Bruce. Is it 180 off or 90 off??? Was flywheel put on wrong at rebuild? 

Edited by SeeJayTwo - 28 May 2023 at 3:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 6:57am
That question tells me you need to study the workings of the engine some more.  

It is 180 degrees off as Bruce said. Do as he said and set timing on the #2 cylinder and you should get better results. 

Yes, flywheel was put on wrong at some point. It is very common to find these old Jeeps with the flywheel mounted 180 degrees off. I have encountered it enough that I never rely on that flywheel mark which is very difficult for me to see anyway, and seldom use it. 

The CJ2A in my Avatar picture sat for 10 years in the previous owner's basement because he was stumped by the same things that had you stumped. I had that Jeep running within an hour after I got it home, simply by bringing #1 up to TDC on compression, seeing that the distributor rotor was 180 degrees off from the #1 spark plug wire, and just moving the wires to match. 

Once I have one of these engines in proper time, I usually make my own marks using an oil based paint pen on the front of the engine where I can see them better. One mark on the crankshaft pulley, and two on the timing cover (TDC and 5 Degrees before). Whenever I have to replace a timing set I install a later model timing pointer when I put the cover back on.   

BTW - When I opted out of the conversation before, it had nothing to do with the political views you expressed, and then deleted. I opted out because for every suggestion made by more experienced people trying to help diagnose the problem you kept insisting it had to be something else. So contrary to the advice you were given, you started pulling things apart. Pulling a head is enough of a job that it will stick in your memory, and should serve as a valuable learning experience.




Edited by Oldpappy - 28 May 2023 at 7:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 9:28am
The flywheel can only be right, or 180° off due to the dowels. If your distributor is off more than that then the oil pump is not clocked correctly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 10:32am
When you put the head back on be sure to torque it to spec in the proper sequence.

I torque the nuts in sequence first to 40 lbs, again to 60 lbs, and a third pass to 70 lbs. 

After running the engine enough to get it good and hot, for me this is usually a drive into town and back, I re-torque to spec after it has cooled down. Then I check the torque again after putting about 100 miles on it,  which is usually a drive to my favorite trout stream.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Oldpappy Oldpappy wrote:

When you put the head back on be sure to torque it to spec in the proper sequence.

I torque the nuts in sequence first to 40 lbs, again to 60 lbs, and a third pass to 70 lbs. 

After running the engine enough to get it good and hot, for me this is usually a drive into town and back, I re-torque to spec after it has cooled down. Then I check the torque again after putting about 100 miles on it,  which is usually a drive to my favorite trout stream.

When you check torque specs later as described has there been some change? I mean, has it been beneficial and not just re-assuring? I am asking to learn.
1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 12:51pm
Usually do find some change on the second check, and usually not so much on the 100 mile check, but some of the nuts will tighten more on the later check.

I guess at least half of the blown head gaskets I have encountered, or even heard mention of, were due to improper torque on the nuts. 

I have an engine I am about to install in a Jeep that I got cheap because the PO said it had compression loss on #3 and #4 cylinders. It was a fairly fresh rebuild, and all that was wrong with it, besides great globs of RTV squished out around the oil pan and tappet cover, was a blown head gasket. He had used brass nuts, and the tightest nut on it was at less than 40 lbs, head gasket blown between #3 and #4. 

If someone watched me close enough over the years they would catch me checking torque periodically throughout my ownership of a Jeep, which may be overkill, but I have never had a head gasket blow on an engine I have built and maintained. Whether that is good luck, or some form of OCD, I don't plan on changing my habits.


Edited by Oldpappy - 28 May 2023 at 1:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 1:16pm
Since the flywheel is 180* off & the distributor turns at 1/2 the speed as the flywheel, the distributor is 1/2 of 180* = 90* off. Thus, you are out 180* at the flywheel & 90* off at the distributor.

Now as to the re-torquing, Yes the bolts/nuts turn a bit tighter. Unless you want to have to re-replace the head gasket, retorque the head gasket twice, once immediately after the first startup & warming cycle, & once at around 100 miles. 95 to 115 miles is fine, 300 miles is very bad, by this time the gasket is set.

I am now wondering if you have learned to listen to advice given on this forum. By asking this question the way you did I suspect that you were thinking about skipping this critical step.

I have had several customers that did not believe me when I said it needed to be done. On one rig when the new head gasket blew, the customer tried to get home with the steam fogging up the windscreen. He did not make it. In the process, he warped both the head & the block. Very bad. 

IHTH, Cpt Logger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeeJayTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

Since the flywheel is 180* off & the distributor turns at 1/2 the speed as the flywheel, the distributor is 1/2 of 180* = 90* off. Thus, you are out 180* at the flywheel & 90* off at the distributor.

Now as to the re-torquing, Yes the bolts/nuts turn a bit tighter. Unless you want to have to re-replace the head gasket, retorque the head gasket twice, once immediately after the first startup & warming cycle, & once at around 100 miles. 95 to 115 miles is fine, 300 miles is very bad, by this time the gasket is set.

I am now wondering if you have learned to listen to advice given on this forum. By asking this question the way you did I suspect that you were thinking about skipping this critical step.

I have had several customers that did not believe me when I said it needed to be done. On one rig when the new head gasket blew, the customer tried to get home with the steam fogging up the windscreen. He did not make it. In the process, he warped both the head & the block. Very bad. 

IHTH, Cpt Logger.

To whom are you speaking? To me or the person in Hijack mode.  This is why a person should not start asking questions. Because they get answered and then get discussed and the whole thread goes off the rails. I always torque per spec.


Edited by SeeJayTwo - 28 May 2023 at 3:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:19pm
No, it is called a "forum" which is by definition an open discussion where anyone can ask questions or express their views. 

In my opinion this thread was not going off the rails, rather it was finally getting on track and starting to make some sense.

It is hard to interpret "tone" in text, but bold red letters certainly helps with that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by SeeJayTwo SeeJayTwo wrote:

Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

Since the flywheel is 180* off & the distributor turns at 1/2 the speed as the flywheel, the distributor is 1/2 of 180* = 90* off. Thus, you are out 180* at the flywheel & 90* off at the distributor.

Now as to the re-torquing, Yes the bolts/nuts turn a bit tighter. Unless you want to have to re-replace the head gasket, retorque the head gasket twice, once immediately after the first startup & warming cycle, & once at around 100 miles. 95 to 115 miles is fine, 300 miles is very bad, by this time the gasket is set.

I am now wondering if you have learned to listen to advice given on this
forum. By asking this question the way you did I suspect that you were
thinking about skipping this critical step.

I have had several customers that did not believe me when I said it needed to be done. On one rig when the new head gasket blew, the customer tried to get home with the steam fogging up the windscreen. He did not make it. In the process, he warped both the head & the block. Very bad. 

IHTH, Cpt Logger.


To whom are you speaking? To me or the person in Hijack mode.  This is why a person should not start asking questions. Because they get answered and then get discussed and the whole thread goes off the rails. I always torque per spec.





Some advice: Don't get butt-hurt. The advice given on this thread has been excellent advice, as is the majority of the advice on the whole forum. If there is something that needs clarification, just ask the person giving the advice for a little bit of help.

There is no hijack mode on this forum, we might run into the brush sometimes in low range, but we always get back on the trail eventually...

No one on here will lead you astray intentionally. We all want the best for fellow forum members...take advice in that vein.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:55pm



Edited by jhg - 29 May 2023 at 7:01pm
1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeeJayTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:56pm
Logger just highlighted the part I wanted know to whom you were speaking and associated it by color with my inquiry. Red means nothing. My God guys. Since I was told that I was not paying attention to advice, i thouht maybe you thought I had posted that question. That's all it was. Calm down. I still don't know who that was meant for. YOU DID come on strong to that question for pretending to be rightous. Quote you again: I am now wondering if you have learned to listen......

I was used to other forums not liking Hijackers. If this forum has no problem with others asking their own question. Now I know.


Edited by SeeJayTwo - 28 May 2023 at 4:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:59pm
Caught in the middle...

Edited by jhg - 29 May 2023 at 11:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeeJayTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 4:02pm
The reason I asked about what you would call it. 180 or 90 is normally a persom need to be at TDC on the compression stroke of no. 1 cylinder. They need to be sure they are no on the exhaust stroke. ususally after after installing a distributor. If they are on the exhaust TDC they are said to be 180 out.
This was not not case. I kept mis-identifying the rotor location as no. 1 probably due to lag time or rotation and my thumb feeling pressure. And maybe dizzy was rotated to far. I don't know. I'm just glad i removed the head. i don;t thgink I would have figured it out. It was taking too long. I also thionk when i did try moving distrib. wires. I may have had old dist. parts in there and spark was too weak. Don't know that either.
I know that rotor turns at 1/2 speed of F/W. I just was considering my mistake as have the plug wires 90 off. Due to F/W being 180 off. I saw it as I was 90 off. The flywheel was 180 off, not me. Smile No argument.
I was very honest all along. Kept advising what I was doing and seeing. I was humble and thankful. I had to go by what I got during my tests. Albeit, error. This did not reflect that I did not understand the advice or was against it. But I am all by myself here and all I could do was try other things to stumble on it, like I did. I was honest is telling that I was wrong and all were right about it being a timing issue. But I was surprised that some took that as an oportunity to pile on and punch me when I was down.

I see some kind of conspiracy forming from some. I don't unbderstand it. So everyone pile on now. Get it all out. I have explained all I'm going to explain. Again thanks for the help.


Edited by SeeJayTwo - 28 May 2023 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 4:05pm
Onward and upward everyone. Glad you found the the problem Seejay. That must feel good to becable to get it running.
Asking about torque specs IMO is not a hyjack we are pretty good about that around here I think.


Edited by jhg - 28 May 2023 at 4:09pm
1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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