Fuel Injecting the 3B |
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bkwudz
Member Joined: 27 Feb. 2010 Location: Billerica Ma Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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Posted: 24 July 2019 at 3:14pm |
The 3B has a pretty good running fhead, but we are going to see how much better it runs, if at all, with fuel injection. In reality it probably does not need it, but i like fun projects.
it uses a 1barrel GM throttle body, from the late 80's 2.5 iron duke 4cyl. These old TBI systems are super simple, bullet proof and easy to dial in. The stock distr needs to have a electronic pickup installed and the weights removed, as all the timing will be done by the computer. I used a new replacement electronic dist, so only the weights were removed. I got the harness, adapters and computer from Hamilton FI, so after its running, we will datalog it, send the data over the hamilton, and they will update the chip with engine specific programming. I am getting close to startup, elec fuel pump, filter, all new feed and return lines are installed, temp sensor and O2 sensor are installed, and stock linkage is connected to the TB Im using the stock tank, and feeding the return in from the bottom drain fitting, hoping it will work, otherwise i will have to install a bulkhead fitting on top of the tank and route the return there. |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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Very interesting Paul.
I see you even used the standard throttle linkage. Perhaps best of all.... this looks like a great way to get the F-134 under a low hood. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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drm101
Member Joined: 12 Dec. 2012 Location: Clarkston, MI Status: Offline Points: 1471 |
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That does sound like a fun project. I'm curious how much it costs and also how you will know if it's better or not. I'm sure cold driveability will for sure be better. With all the 4 cylinder 2.5L's in salvage yards, I'd guess parts would be easy and cheap to obtain.
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Metcalf
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 21 May 2009 Location: Durango, Co Status: Offline Points: 736 |
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One of the major issues I have always had with EFI conversions over the years is the fuel pickup using a carb tank. It will work ok with the tank full, but eventually it will start sucking air as the fuel sloshes around in the tank. This air goes into the fuel pump which shortens it's life. The air bubbles in the fuel delivery line don't help anything on the injector side of things. |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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bkwudz
Member Joined: 27 Feb. 2010 Location: Billerica Ma Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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that is a potential issue, i am hoping to avoid the problem. The tank pickup is at the rear passenger side of the tank. i have lifted the driverside of the tank about 1/2", so it tilts towards the pickup. Im thinking i will have to be almost empty before i suck air. Also noticed my tank is baffled, which should help.
Worst case if it is a problem, ill run a surge tank
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otto
Member Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Offline Points: 2267 |
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My 2a FI project also runs the fuel supply from the drain plug and returns through the old supply port on the stock tank. Seems to work fine so far. Your system looks a lot cleaner than mine turned out. Bill is looking over some data that I sent for the second iteration of the tune.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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bkwudz
Member Joined: 27 Feb. 2010 Location: Billerica Ma Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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She’s a runner, I must have done something right, started on first try, And even before any basic adjustments, and any chip reprogramming, I think it feels, sounds and smells better than ever. This could be very sweet
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4785 |
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Even for this old traditionalist, that's pretty cool
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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bkwudz
Member Joined: 27 Feb. 2010 Location: Billerica Ma Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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Knocking off all the little things, got all the guts tucked up under the dash nice and neat. love the extra height under the dash.
all the lines and wires secured, and if my air cleaner shows up tomorrow, i’ll Be able to take it for a ride. I thought this was cool, I’m going to take AC trigger, which raises the RPM a little to compensate when the AC is on, and run it to the York OBA, so when the compressor is turned on, the RPM will jump up to a set point |
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Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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You might want to brace those long fuel lines into/out of the TB somewhere. They could easily vibrate into trouble. The fuel injection looks like a really great idea though!
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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bkwudz
Member Joined: 27 Feb. 2010 Location: Billerica Ma Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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Install is done, everything is secured, and seems to be working well. I need to now take it for a couple good rides to log some data, then we will burn a new chip specific to this jeep and the conditions it operated under. Hopefully tomorrow ill get it on the road and have a seat of the pants feel for how things have improved.
Edited by bkwudz - 13 Aug. 2019 at 6:59pm |
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4785 |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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otto
Member Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Offline Points: 2267 |
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Always nice when a plan works out. Let us know how well it runs.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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masscj2a
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2013 Location: Chester Mass Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Yeh, I'm shocked to hear this coming from you. Your still a solid steel wheel guy. I'm there with you though. Glad Paul is getting all the bugs worked out for the rest of us. Well with exception of the traditionalist guy. But seriously I'm thinking about this for a future part of the 3b. Even though after rebuilding the carb has helped and the electronics distributor helped, there are just too many hills around here to make a really enjoyable long drive. Have to plan your drives based on flatter roads. 😁
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1946 CJ2a Dauntless aka Jalopy
1946 VEC stock 1981 CJ-8 5.3 LS 1966 CJ-6 SBC TUX 1968 CJ-6 225 V6 1974 CJ-6 4.2 1967 M-416 East Coast Modified CJ's |
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BillF
Member Joined: 02 Oct. 2005 Location: Hillsborough NH Status: Offline Points: 1133 |
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Wonder how I could get this to work with the 24 volt system...
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1952 m38
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bkwudz
Member Joined: 27 Feb. 2010 Location: Billerica Ma Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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Been working on the system, install looks good, seems to work well. Even with a bad tune it still runs better than the carb. But You ask " why do i have a bad tune" because i have probably been giving bad data. I have supplied Bill with a couple sets of data and he has made adjustments, but it really has not changed anything for the better. So i looked into it a little more, and it turns out i should have followed Bills install advice a little closer. He suggests after the install, before you spend any time logging any data, check your fuel pressures. The Inlet needs to be around 13 PSI and the return should be petty much 0. So i put a gauge on it, and my inlet is rock steady at 13, but my return is at 5psi, way too high.
The excess pressure in the return causes a rich condition at the injector that cannot be tuned out. Any restrictions in the return throws the custom tune way off. The good news is i know right were my return problem is, i suspected it would be an issue from install, but still took the easy way. I used the drain on the bottom of the stock tank as the return inlet. The fact that its in the bottom isn't the issue, its because its a small fitting, 1/4" with an even smaller actual hole in it. Otherwise the line from the throttle body to the tank is all 5/16", the recommenced size. So i need to find a 90deg 5/16 or even 3/8" bulkhead fitting to install on the top the tank. Then i'll be able to log some good data and go from there.
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4785 |
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Any progress is good progress ...and I thought I was the only one that took the easy way suspecting I'd be redoing something, and then redoing something
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Bob3b
Member Joined: 08 Mar. 2010 Location: Akron, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 3097 |
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That's pretty cool right there.
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1946 CJ2A #23881
1953 CJ3b, nice! 1949 Jeepster 1947 Empire Model 90 1985 CJ10A Spen "S" Utility trailer Kubota l3400 |
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