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micjen View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 July 2014 at 4:55am
Hi I am new here. I happen to be a former mechanic whose specialty is engines. I am building up a L134 to be fitted with a throttle body fuel injection. other mods are internal being: performance conrods, cam ground forged pistons,  stud girdle, substantial porting mind you not too much of a lift in compression. Flow like crazy is the secret of flatties. NOT compression. Many other small mods mostly hidden are called for apart from headers.

I will be using a local throttle body from a local OZ car that has a typical weber style pattern. Simply turning the inlet upside down makes for a pain free adaptor. Plus hidden modern wiring and adaption to existing air-cleaner for as close to a stock look as I can muster.

As I do this part of my project I will post up the pics.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2014 at 5:19am
This is a dual throttle body unit from an Australian Ford Falcon EA circa 1988. Runs at 15 psi It has a weber mounting pattern.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2014 at 2:47pm
Cool. Might be able to boost power up to… maybe 80 HP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2014 at 5:27pm
I think I should be able to get the L134 to maybe 100 hp mainly because of internal changes. My examination of the engine layout indicates there was a lot of unrealized potential in it. I want to be able to keep up with the traffic on the freeway without getting run over by an 18 wheeler. The main things are modern conrods and pistons and reinforced bottom end along with a weight reduction diet on the rotating masses along with different cam grind with a theoretical redline of 5,500.

The limiting factor is the siamesed intake ports however they are fairly generous in size so will succumb to reworking.

I do notice the F134 block could be massaged to give 4 ports rather than siamesed to turn into a flathead style engine with little work. There does appear to be a lot of old F134 blocks around minus their heads and a real shortage of original useable L134 motors. Theres an idea an 8 port L134 block. i have a spare one..... Not seized either....Thinking..

I obviously don't what to destroy the nostalgia and feel of the original but want it to move forward some 50+ tech years so mine can be used as a daily driver if I so choose. Almost as if they were doing the CJ for the 1st time today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrPop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2014 at 1:22am
This is a great idea, would be interesting to see just how much modern technology could push out of the old block! Smile  It was good for its day, but this is 70+ years down the road from its design...I'm sure if it's strong enough and has enough room for better flow you could soup it up quite nicely.

Of course the other option would be to swap in a much newer V6 or V8, but then of course you lose all the nostalgia you were commenting on. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2014 at 3:42am
I could easily get a local V6 from a Holden (Chev) here as they are dirt cheap. The L134 (and F134) engine itself upon inspection is certainly one strong and massively heavy unit. However there are some items that are some really poor design choices although I can see why they did it. One is the conrods. A slot through the little end with a pinch bolt is a point of stress concentration and failure. However, in the field, one could very easily change a piston set. Of course engines were decoked on a regular basis then. Nowdays? Never heard of it. The regular inspection no doubt would remove the potential problem parts.

Another strange choice is the use of siamesed intake ports that are much smaller in crossection area compared to the exhaust ports which are not. However it does make for very simple carburetation and manifold design. Plus it does help to get the air velocity up which is not a bad thing using the fuel systems available then. Today we would design the intake manifold volume around specific impulses. Whether that effect was known then, I don't think so.

The choice of low compression is no accident either. To raise the compresion in a flathead by any means either by milling the head or block or using popup pistons will actually reduce the air flow into the engine. This is because the air has to flow from the valves to the piston area and back. Reducing that height in that area to increase compression reduces airflow. that puts a cap on compression. I estimate that to be not much more than 7.5:1 before there are little to no returns on volumetric efficiency. So, they actually got that part right. This effect makes modifying a flathead very challenging. Not forgetting the very small bore size a makes valve size increases difficult.

The oiling system is quite interesting as its quite good. However whether a bypass system when compared to a full flow is better has never been answered. A combination of both as used on some engines is the superior system. Of course we have detergent oils nowdays and that makes for very clean internals.

A word of warning is never use modern detergent oils in an unrestored engine. it will fail from oil starvation as all the accumulated sludge will come out.

Cheers all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee (MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2014 at 10:03am
Micjen, I find your thread very interesting, thank you for posting. Your assessment of the oil filter is also of interest. I often see on jeep forums how bypass systems are used with great success in the heavy truck and equipment industry, and that is true when used in combination a full flow filter. That being said with out a full flow filter to protect the engine I see little value in a bypass filter and IMHO was a sales point not a necessity!. good luck with your fuel injection .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2014 at 10:59pm
There is an engine sold in Australia that apparently one can use the oil pump off for a full flow set up. I haven't compared the pumps yet although they look similar, the distributor mount is different. However I do notice the cam gears are very similar as well. Ours has a performance aluminium one as a replacement for the original fibre one. I have changed heaps of these as the fibre one often fails.

1st photo is of L/F134 Willys engine cam gear.
2nd photo is of imperial size holden 6 cylinder red motor. They look so similar. Can they interchange with some minor mods ie an adaptor? or can the aftermarket make a direct replacement one? Interesting.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eestes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2014 at 1:29pm
Micjen, I am worried now about your comment on using modern detergent oil in an unrestored engine. I just changed my 48 CJ 2 A's 30 weight oil and replaced with 10W-30. Where does the sludge "come out" to? Can I just run it it briefly and change the oil (to 10W 30) several times? Or does the entire engine need to be torn down and cleaned internally? Would removing the oil pan and cleaning it be enough?
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2014 at 5:09pm
Using detergent oil in an unrestored engine probably won't give problems 99% of the time. It depends on prior useage, oil change history, internal cleanliness etc.

Its basically a judgement call however I have seen what can happen if an engine was previously unserviced then bought by a new owner then subjected to regular maintenece again.

An inspection on what can be got at easily such as the side cover and inside the sump should reveal the truth. Again 99% of the time there won't be an issue if previous service history has been fastidious.

Its just one of those things can can happen. I had to figure out why a chev v6 had no oil pressure once. Every person the guy had been to had failed. I traced it to an oil change. The guy had used a cheap funnel with a wire screen. Sure enough one of the strands came off. The oil pump picked it up and it got stuck in the pressure relief valve.

Many a time I came across engines with sludge so bad one could not see the tappets. basically just a groove where the crank runs and tappets move. yet they seemed full of oil. If in doubt take a look under the skin.

Cheers, Michael
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eestes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2014 at 5:12pm
Ok, thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2014 at 6:41pm
This is one item I am definitely placing inside my L134 engine. Improved conrods. They are not cheap at $1,200 a set but have a much higher red line than standard max is about 6,000 rpm. naturally everything else has to be upgraded to make use of it but the potential is there if built in.

Look at this bad boy. Nice piece of work. The original piston gudgeon pin is now a press fit rather than using a pinch bolt and slot right through the little end.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cj2a_ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2014 at 10:07pm
Very interesting read please keep updating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junkcarguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug. 2014 at 10:08am
who makes the connecting rods you have shown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug. 2014 at 5:01pm
The conrods are available (2 month wait) from Murphys Motor Service. 573-696-3655 I will be getting the same made in Australia. Argo Conrods do the same here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhillipM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2014 at 1:26am
Originally posted by eestes1 eestes1 wrote:

Micjen, I am worried now about your comment on using modern detergent oil in an unrestored engine. I just changed my 48 CJ 2 A's 30 weight oil and replaced with 10W-30. Where does the sludge "come out" to? Can I just run it it briefly and change the oil (to 10W 30) several times? Or does the entire engine need to be torn down and cleaned internally? Would removing the oil pan and cleaning it be enough?
Thanks.

Sludge develops mainly from not running the engine enough to get the oil (not the coolant) hot.  To get the oil temp up the engine needs to be run at least 20 minutes with a load.  That will boil out all the corrosive condensates in the oil that eat up the engine and make the oil sludgy.

I have observed several engines that were abused by short trips that had sludge build up as evidenced by milky deposits on the dipstick and sludge/carbon under the valve covers.  All of these engines cleaned themselves up by changing the oil and driving them more miles per trip.

I'd not lose one minute's sleep switching to detergent oil.  At worst the sludge will break up and clog the intake screen which is a simple oil pan drop to clear.

The key words in the above post were a piece of wire fell in the engine.  It had nothing to do with detergent oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug. 2014 at 5:48pm
Having torn down quite a few antique engines I would definitely drop the oil pan and clean the screen. Easy to do as well. Simply lever off the oil strainer cover and the mess will reveal itself. Both Jeep engines were very blocked in this area that I pulled apart. So much so I would suggest it be done within a short time of major engine work or prior to coming out of storage.

As usual anything can happen. However prior use of straight mineral oil does leave a deposit around the engine which will be removed with use of modern detergent oils. The question is how bad is it? Probably nothing to worry about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrlentle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug. 2014 at 5:34pm
Exciting stuff Micjen. I'm especially interested in your injection set up. Being in NZ, we have a lot of the same junk yard stuff as you instead of the (American) GM bits used on peoples setups in the states. What dizzy etc are you planning on and will it trigger injection or are you fitting a crank angle sensor too?
http://willysm38build.blogspot.co.nz/
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