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Gloss in Body Paint

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Arsene Wenger View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 May 2019 at 12:08am
Hello All 

I was wondering when the original Jeeps came out of the factory how glossy / or luster less were they? 

I am assuming the were not luster less like a Willys MB or a GPW. But they were not very glossy like modern cars as well, to the best of my knowledge. 

Any tips on how much shine / gloss should a paint have. I am going for an Emerald Green finish which was original to my Jeep. In order to arrive at that colour i will have to mix paints. 

Here is my restoration thread in case anyone is interested 



Thank You 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arsene Wenger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 12:13am
Guys this is the closest example i have of an Emerald Green finish. What do you think? I think the 2A finish should have less luster .. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 9:50am
I'm no painter but I believe the finish would be as glossy as any single stage paint job from back then.  I've personally seen runs in the paint finish from the factory so a whole lot of care wasn't a concern.  I did go with base/clear vs. single and had to convince the body shop not to buff until the shine looked like a mirror (they thought the shine would look better). 
 
 
I did find these covering the '48 color options:
 
I'm sure that any jeep, once on the farm, would begin to show weathering.  Again, just guessing but I don't think the farmers would wash/wax to protect the paint.
 
 
Also, scroll through these ( you can definitely see a shine when the lighting angle is just right):
 


Edited by Rus Curtis - 22 May 2019 at 9:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damar2yxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 12:38pm
These paints were a single stage alkyd enamel. They were much less glossy than the picture you provided. The paint will go on and look glossy but will probably fade and look less glossy as time goes by. A nice base coat/clear coat will be much more flashy and less likely to fade as much.
The Emerald green shade you like on the trike is pretty close. If you like it, use it.


Edited by damar2yxr - 22 May 2019 at 12:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arsene Wenger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 8:32am
Thanks for the feedback guys. I have to use Emerald Green because that was the original colour on the Jeep. It is not my favourite but sticking to it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Rus Curtis Rus Curtis wrote:

 
I'm sure that any jeep, once on the farm, would begin to show weathering.  Again, just guessing but I don't think the farmers would wash/wax to protect the paint.
 
 

 


Curious statement this kind of infers all early CJ's were used on the "Farm" which is far from the case. They were used by every imaginable sort of business and personal use. Yes they were marketed to farmers but at the same time many owners would have taken pride in up keep. Do you think a Service station that used a Willys as a courtesy vehicle or a Auto Parts store as a parts runner or a flower shop or drug store or firedept. would not be washing and waxing their investment?

Also I know farmers who take better care of their equipment then most car owners. Which is why around here you see farmers still running trucks they bought in the 60's and 70's..

Not saying the paint jobs on new Jeeps was as fancy as a new Ford but I bet it was close.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nofender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:

Originally posted by Rus Curtis Rus Curtis wrote:

 
I'm sure that any jeep, once on the farm, would begin to show weathering.  Again, just guessing but I don't think the farmers would wash/wax to protect the paint.
 
 

 


Curious statement this kind of infers all early CJ's were used on the "Farm" which is far from the case. They were used by every imaginable sort of business and personal use. Yes they were marketed to farmers but at the same time many owners would have taken pride in up keep. Do you think a Service station that used a Willys as a courtesy vehicle or a Auto Parts store as a parts runner or a flower shop or drug store or firedept. would not be washing and waxing their investment?

Also I know farmers who take better care of their equipment then most car owners. Which is why around here you see farmers still running trucks they bought in the 60's and 70's..

Not saying the paint jobs on new Jeeps was as fancy as a new Ford but I bet it was close.



I'm with Mark on this one. I bet they gleamed pretty nicely when new. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 7:29pm
yep.  No argument on new.  That's why I included a link that showed the shine.  But, IF you'll read, I mean read what I said, you'd gather that I am hypothesizing. Not too many people around that bought those jeeps new to confirm or deny. I would guess that's what you're doing also (conclusion off of your own observations).   So......
 
Would there be some that babied them?  Yes!  After all, we do know of some owners that have taken real good care of their family jeeps.
 
Again, I was generalizing.  But, point taken.  Not all were neglected. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 8:05pm
One of my jeeps has the original paint on the inner fenders. The paint was applied rather flat and smooth so I can only assume that the rest of the paint was fairly smooth and glossy. It shines up nicely with some compound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:

They were used by every imaginable sort of business and personal use.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote markcl52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 10:11pm
This is a good topic. At some point in the next one (or five) years I’ll be repainting my jeep too. I’m really impressed by the nice glossy paint jobs I’ve seen. They look brand new and are a true testament to the work and skill put into them. I’m also a sucker for the well worn and faded paint. They look so authentic on these old jeeps. When I repaint I’m thinking about a finish closer to a satin than a high gloss. Partly because I’m somewhat lazy and don’t want the added effort of trying to keep up a nice shine. And partly because I know the finished product won’t be perfect and I think a glossy finish will make those imperfections stand out more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 6:06am
From a marketing and sales standpoint, I have to believe it was in Willys' best interest to sell shiny pennies, and ya gotta paint them anyway.  Who wants a showroom full of lusterless anything?   What happened after the sale and over the ensuing 60-70 years aside, I have to believe they left the factory with all the shine a single stage paint could muster...  not six inch deep 15 coats of hand rubbed lacquer shiny, certainly, and I've never heard that they were clear coated.  Without the protection of wax or a topcoat I have to believe the original shine came off that apple pretty quick, though-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 11:13am

Old black and white photos do give us hints on how shiny these Willys Jeeps were.

Not being there, and not ever seeing a perfectly “kept” CJ2A, I can only assume the shine was there, but no where near what we expect today.  Paint was …and still is primarily designed to protect steel surfaces and to slow rust.  As Henry Ford once said, (paraphrase) “ You can get your new Ford painted black…or black.” 

I personally prefer a muted finish on a Willys Jeep.  I went out of my way to achieve a satin finish on this 3A.  This was achieved by using a satin clear coat.   You can see the difference between the Jeep and the gas can in this shot.  The gas can was shot in a smaller paint batch and I didn’t get my clear coat mixture measured out quite right.  The Jeep is satin.  The can is semi-gloss.

 

 

Here is the underside of my 2A tool box lid.  This is a ’46 done with the Pasture Green finish.  The shine has lost a bit of luster, but when I used a bit of polish, I was  surprised how shiny I could get it.   Still, it would probably be called semi-gloss in this day and age…

 



Edited by athawk11 - 24 May 2019 at 11:32am
1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 2:43pm
I think the ideal would be to have several Jeeps, with one each painted lusterless, one satin, one semi-gloss, and one gloss all the same color.  Oh, and one with its original paint with 70+ years of weathering.  So you need at least 5 Jeeps of each color.  That only calls for a couple dozen Jeeps to cover all the colors offered, right?  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 3:53pm
LETS get back to the original question here.

"I was wondering when the original Jeeps came out of the factory how glossy / or luster less were they?"

He does not ask what a particular Willys owner wants their Jeep to look like he does not ask about a persons preference or interpretation of the paint.

He wants to know what it looked like when new SITTING ON THE LOT WAITING TO BE SOLD NEW

And I would be some good money that a Willys Jeep in the Late 40's had damn near as good of paint job as any Ford or Chevy. The type of paint they used would have glossed up nicely if applied correctly so there is no reason to assume or infer the paint wouldn't have had a nice gloss on it.

I'm not making a comment on anyones choice as to finish. Just stating what I think is the obvious. New paint on a new vehicle looks shinny. Heck a New Farmall tractor was shinny Why wouldn't a Jeep be as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 4:34pm
The biggest problem with flat paint is you cannot wax it. I think the lusterless od green in ww2 used linseed oil to kinda protect the paint. I know this doesnt answer the question but look at the paint job from a maintenance point of view too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:

.He wants to know what it looked like when new SITTING ON THE LOT WAITING TO BE SOLD NEW



Not sure what kind of answer you are holding out for Mark.

Rus answered that as best that could be answered in his first post by posting a link to reference pictures of fairly new examples which are about all that we can go on since, to the best of my knowledge, none of us are sitting on a brand new, nicely stored example.

You then went on to quote his post and say "Not saying the paint jobs on new Jeeps was as fancy as a new Ford but I bet it was close."...... then in your latest post "....... that a Willys Jeep in the late 40s had damn near as good of paint job as any Ford or Chevy."

Then that shiney new Farmall was compared also......so looks like we are ALL down to hypothesizing on gloss (I also tend to think they would be just as shiney as that new Farmall too)

So, hasn't it been answered about the best we can? Picture references are all we have.

I don't read it that anybody is inferring that they came off the lot......lusterless.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2019 at 12:18am
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:


He does not ask what a particular Willys owner wants their Jeep to look like he does not ask about a persons preference or interpretation of the paint.



Wow.  I didn't mean to offend you Mark.  I also didn't see the memo that says we're no longer aloud to offer an opinion here at the 2A Page.

I suggested one approach to tone down the ultra glossy finishes offered with modern paint because the original poster appears to want something less glossy.


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