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jpet View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Apr. 2012 at 4:18am
Hi All,

I thinking about making a hammer form for side panels based on the ideas I got from metalshaper:

.... and philshevlin's project:

This is my idea, and I hope that Brian, Bill, Phil, and whoever has done this work before will chime in with potential problems they see and tips.  I'd like to get this right the first time.

What I want to do is create a form like this:

The form is similar to what Brain did, except that with this form, I would integrate the back radius of the panel.  This form is made of steel.  The rear radius form bolts on:

... and they can be reversed to make the opposite hand panel:

I made the radius forms a two piece deal so that it would be easier to remove once the panel is formed around the die.

I figure for economics, I would make the "sandwich plate" out of wood:

I left the wood plate short about 1/4" around all edges.  Is that a good idea?

Then if I desire to put tool indents in the panel, i would clamp on another plate made of steel or aluminum to form the indents:

Is this going to work?  I can cut the shapes out on a CNC mill. including the indents.  Thoughts?



Edited by jpet - 11 Apr. 2012 at 4:19am
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you may need a second rear outer form as well for the radius, at least for the edges....
 
Gonna use steel?? not cheap... and heavy...
 
Also you may want to use thinner steel for the clamp form, and make it almost as large as the underneath form, just bevel the edges for access. I don't know if you can get enough clamping pressure out of wood..
 
My idea of making the radius first may be one to look at, bend the rear flange in the steel, then clamp the flange to your form. THen bend it over the radius  area, and clamp the rest of the hammerform clamp into place.
 
Plan ahead on how you will remove the panel from the form. the rear curved area is going to give you fits, I like the two piece approach there...
 
You may want to do a 1/4 scale mockup to see how well it works first. (THen of course a 1/4 scale jeep)


Edited by F Bill - 11 Apr. 2012 at 4:33am
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Originally posted by F Bill F Bill wrote:

...Also you may want to use thinner steel for the clamp form, and make it almost as large as the underneath form, just bevel the edges for access.....
I might try to just sandwich a piece of 18 gauge between a piece of steel bar stock and a piece of wood and practice making an edge to see how close I need the edge of the wood to be to the edge of the steel form. I assume that clamping wood to the top would work well since Phil did not seem to have a problem with wood other than the edges of the wood form were not hard enough to pound the 18 gauge over. If a wooden "sandwich" plate does not work, I can make it out of aluminum but then I'd probably have to machine that out in the CNC as well. The wood I can easily band saw.
Quote ......I don't know if you can get enough clamping pressure out of wood....

Phil, How did this work for you?

Quote Plan ahead on how you will remove the panel from the form. the rear curved area is going to give you fits, I like the two piece approach there...
 
You may want to do a 1/4 scale mockup to see how well it works first. (THen of course a 1/4 scale jeep)

I figure that if I can't remove the two piece radius form, I would most likely be able to remove a three piece set...perhaps attach some handles to the inside of the pieces to pull them out starting with the center one. If push comes to shove, I can scrap the radius idea and bolt a straight piece to the end. Then the form would be no different than metalshaper's which is proven to work. I wonder how Brian got the panel off the form after he was finished.

The steel is pricey but I figure if I made one set of panels, I would get my money back.

Edited by jpet - 11 Apr. 2012 at 11:07am
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I found that the top wood piece was more than enough for the straight bends.  Even using only the clamps shown here.  But I tack welded some angle to prevent the sheet metal from getting pulled through the two forms.  

This picture shows what I'm talking about.  I started forming the bottom edge first.  The "tacked in" angle held the top side while I formed the bottom.  Once the bottom was formed, I moved to the top edge and removed the angle iron.

As for my opinions based on my limited experience...

Straight double bends were a breeze.  The wheel well was a little harder.  You need to go very slow to avoid tearing the metal.  Stretching is way easier than shrinking.  

The b!tch was the top bend of the door opening (where you normally bang your hip getting into the jeep). I wasn't very successful here.  So anything you can do to sure things up here - will only help.  If you finish this area last, you can unclamp, take the top form off, etc.  Things stay pretty stable, if you're careful.  Maybe you can use a small metal top form in this area.

There is so much shrinking going on here that you might alo consider using a tucking fork to get things started. I would have liked to have had more, but smaller, tucks going when I started this:


As for the rear radius, I think the double bend at the top will be twice as hard as the part I struggled with.  With all my hammering, I was hammering downward onto a dieform that was firmly clamped to a sturdy steel table on a concrete floor.  That put all my force into the piece I was working. The radius will be up in the air with no backing.  I would think your form will vibrate an you would loose a lot of your force.  It might even break your bolts.  Unless you stood the whole thing on its edge??

As for removing the form, don't worry, it will come out.  My problem was because the die was wood.  The little folds in the sheet metal got a grip onto the form.  Should happen with metal.  

I'm real interested in seeing how this goes.
 
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Also...

You only need about 1/8" relief around the top form.  1/4" may be too much.
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Well after talking with all y'all and after talking to metalshaper, I decided to make the top plate out of aluminum:

This one has a radius that bolts on to the end like the steel form, to hold the panel up against the form back in the radius area.

The steel form still has the two piece setup:

I can cut both the steel plate and the aluminum plate at the same time in the CNC other than the tool indents.
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(dang, man, that Jpet surely is one of the clever monkeys, ain't he?)
Very nice work, Sir!!!
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you guys amaze me with the sheet metal stuff! I have no patience for this kind of thing. metal shapes too slow for me , I get angry at a slow gas pump!
keep up the good work, i really wanna see how this goes!
 
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Jeff,
 
Are you making these with the intent to sell panels? If so are you planning on doing floors as well?
 I for one will be needing body parts in the future
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If you leave out the hump, the front floors are all flat with easy bends you can do with a couple of pieces of angle iron. AFAIK nobody  has made the center hump except MD JUan.
 
Rear Floors right now, Classic Enterprises makes the best one. The deep ribs are a challenge and near impossible without large power tools.
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I don't really see the point in making metal forms to make the panels. For the price of the metal forms and time to make them you could probably buy several preformed panels. If you use hardwood plywood it would take the pressure of hammering the metal to shape and may survive several uses.
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Hi Carl,

I'm doing this because it is a hobby and it is fun.  Not because it makes sense.


Edited by jpet - 14 Apr. 2012 at 4:13pm
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Originally posted by Zuma58 Zuma58 wrote:

Jeff,
 
Are you making these with the intent to sell panels? If so are you planning on doing floors as well?
 I for one will be needing body parts in the future

I'm making these forms for a friend.  I'll probably just do some panels for myself.  I'm not sure when i will get to make these.  Right now I'm just designing and spit-balling.

FWIW.  The piece of steel cost $225.  Not sure how much the aluminum will cost.
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Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

I'm doing this because it is a hobby and it is fun.  Not because it makes sense.
 
I might just have to borrow that line for my signature! ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap


Edited by F Bill - 14 Apr. 2012 at 4:21pm
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While it's a hobby and for fun there's no point in spending more than necessary for metal when wood will do and it will probably make a lot of panels if it's treated with care. The Italian body makers used wooden forms to build their cars and hammered the metal over the form to create all the body parts. I doubt they had much trouble using wood and it's much easier to shape than metal.

I need a right rear corner panel for my Jeep and I plan to use wood for the form even though I have the machines to shape a metal form. The time and cost would be way overboard to make a metal form for one panel.


Edited by Carlsjeep - 15 Apr. 2012 at 5:29am
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Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Hi Carl,

I'm doing this because it is a hobby and it is fun.  Not because it makes sense.
 
that about sums up this entire jeep thing!
kinda like spendin 20k on a vehicle worth about 10-12k on the market.
 
 
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Originally posted by Carlsjeep Carlsjeep wrote:

While it's a hobby and for fun there's no point in spending more than necessary for metal ......
 
"No point" other than the most obvious, Jeff wants to build it out of metal. Under that circumstance who's business is it of anyone else here how much money or how much fun Jeff has with his hobby?
 
 
 
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Well said Rocnrol well said Thumbs Up
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