Hard Brake Pedal |
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RDM459
Member Joined: 24 June 2019 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Posted: 24 June 2019 at 4:39pm |
Hello-
I recently rebuild all the stock drums on my CJ-3a. New master cylinder, new wheel cylinders, shoes, springs and drums. Seemed to bleed ok, but the brake pedal is very hard. Takes a lot of effort and slowing roll to a stop, and it seems like i could roll backwards if i were on a steep incline. I suspect the culprit could be old rubber hoses that are expanding or cracked/collapsed leading to bad pressure. Maybe pinched or bad ends at valve points? Anyone have suggestions? If i replace the rubber hoses, should i just replace all the lines?
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Rich Muckerman
1951 CJ-3A |
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Rus Curtis
Member Joined: 25 Mar. 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1733 |
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There was a thread a while back about the rod being too long:
Verify that's not an issue.
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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RDM459
Member Joined: 24 June 2019 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Ill check it out. Thank you, Rus
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Rich Muckerman
1951 CJ-3A |
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Bill2A
Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2018 Location: Fort Worth, Tex Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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The rubber hoses expanding will not make the pedal feel harder.
If anything they might make it softer. If they are really old and/or obviously cracked, they should be replaced.
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1946 CJ2A 14098
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2391 |
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Welcome to the CJ2A Page!
What year is you CJ3A? There are at least 2 types of brakes configurations on the stock 1941 to 195?ish Jeeps. For the purposes of this discussion the assumption is that you have 9" drum brakes. The next questions is do the brakes have four adjusting cams or two adjusting cams? The adjusting procedure is a little different depending on what type you have. Confirm the brake shoes are installed properly (long shoe towards the front of the Jeep). There is a lot of great information on adjusting the cams here - do an advanced search for it.
My advice is to think about the brakes as a single system - that needs to be in top notch shape. I would replace the brake lines, all the brake hoses, dissemble the hose fittings and clean any gunk out. You have done a lot of work and only have a few items to check off before you have a completely new system. Then adjust the shoes, bleed the brakes, lube the pedal linkage, make sure the linkage is not binding or hitting anything. If all of those things don''t cure the problem, I would pull the master cylinder and see if there is something blocking the fluid passages. (I actually would at that point install a dual master cylinder conversion from Herm the Overdrive Guy) (If I really wanted to stop I would do a Geo Tracker disc brake conversion). Let us know how you progress. Be safe - test everything and confirm it is working properly. Edited by Stev - 27 June 2019 at 9:41pm |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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RDM459
Member Joined: 24 June 2019 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Its a 1951. 9" drums, 4 cams per wheel, 2 upper and 2 lower.
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Rich Muckerman
1951 CJ-3A |
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4908 |
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I saw no mention of experience level, so please do not be offended by me mentioning a rookie thing.
If there are no physical obstructions, or clogged lines, a hard pedal and poor stopping could possibly be a combination of too tight adjustment of the shoes, and brake fluid on the shoes if bleeding was not done properly. On vehicles this old I always replace all the lines, steel and rubber. |
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Oilleaker1
Member Joined: 06 Sep. 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Status: Offline Points: 4412 |
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Hard pedal with poor brakes usually means a stuck set of wheel cylinders.
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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RDM459
Member Joined: 24 June 2019 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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No offence taken, i am by all means a novice. Adjustment certainly could be off, they were adjusted by a mechanic but when i went back in after i got the jeep back, the shoe pads were worn unevenly(different wear marks on the shoes from each wheel, looks like shoes are expanding into drum unevenly). Hes adamant that they just need to "break in"(new shoes, new wheel cylinders, new drums), but i dont think it looked right. I have to practically stand on the pedal to get it to roll to slow stop, even at low speeds. I will try readjusting them after watching some videos/reading the manual. I suspect there are bad lines/pinched ends at connection points, but i'm hoping i can get them working reasonably well while the weather is nice and then replace the suspension and brake lines over winter. The lines bleed decently, but when i replaced the Master Cylinder, one of the connections points was rounded off and i had to use vice grips to screw it back in....not ideal and i'm worried i may have pinched the end of the line and makes me wonder what type of shape the other connection points are in. There were all sorts of weird quick fix jobs on this thing during its time on a farm with its previous owner that i've found. Drums and pads are new and i was very aware of not getting oil/fluid on them, so i dont think thats the issue. Thanks for the input!
Edited by RDM459 - 11 July 2019 at 3:42pm |
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Rich Muckerman
1951 CJ-3A |
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4908 |
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A lot of folks out there with the title of "Mechanic" who may not be familiar with "old iron", and may never have even seen brake adjustment cams as are used on these old Jeeps. More "modern", as in mid 50s up, drum brakes have automatic adjusters, which are quite different.
Read the manual, watch the videos, and search this site for proper brake adjustment. Once you learn how go back and see if that mechanic wants to learn the same thing. |
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RA472A
Member Joined: 15 Nov. 2005 Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Another thing to check is the brake pedal free play. Need a bit of space before the master cylinder push rod contacts the rear of the piston. Just a thought.
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RDM459
Member Joined: 24 June 2019 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Cam adjustment was not done properly. Once i got that taken care of and adjusted the push rod, problem solved. Thanks all!
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Rich Muckerman
1951 CJ-3A |
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Rus Curtis
Member Joined: 25 Mar. 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1733 |
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Well done!
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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x2!
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