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Help with Starting

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Alpine View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 12:24am
Due to a long time starting issue, I installed a brand new starter last week and my jeep has been starting great up until this afternoon. I was driving it around and it was running rough, with very little acceleration in 1st gear and just barely OK in 2nd gear. I almost thought I was not going to make it back to the house. I thought the acceleration problem might be a carb adjustment issue, so I tried to make sure idle screw was set at 1.5 turns counterclockwise from bottoming out. Now it wont start. It cranks fast but will not start. I am positive all the cables are correct, connections are clean, and battery is good (started every time for the past 5 days without issue). 

Any idea what it could be. Even though I adjusted the carb, I am not 100% sure that is the problem since it was running so bad. All ideas area appreciated. 

Tried again this evening and now the foot starter switch got super hot. Previously was not getting hot at all when I tried to start. 


Edited by Alpine - 07 Apr. 2019 at 1:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1947-cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 2:53am
Any chance your distributor rotated a bit or your timing gear may have gone bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 3:09am
Could be a fuel delivery problem. Simple stuff first, like check your needle valve for the float it could be sticking because of dirt. The screw you adjusted was for fuel/air mixture. The foot switch getting hot may be from excessive cranking trying to get the engine started. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 3:15am
I was going to rotate the distributor to adjust the timing but ended up not doing it. I started loosening the bolt but tightened it back up. I made a mark to make sure it was in the starting position. 

I tried to test the foot switch for continuity and I got a beep with the foot switch pushed down but also without pushing down on the switch. I guess the switch is bad?

If I try to push start (or pulling it) the jeep and it starts that would confirm the foot swith is bad?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47 deuce alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 3:20am
You might want to pull a spark plug, check for fouling, then check the spark while turning the engine over. As Bret said simple first, check you ignition switch, they can go bad. If you think it is lack of fuel, remove the fuel line, stick it in a bucket and turn the engine over to verify fuel up to the carb. Maybe fuel filters or fuel pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 3:23am
I tried starting fluid with the same result. Lots of cranking, plenty of power, but it never tried to turn over and start. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47 deuce alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 3:24am
You can bypass the starter button with a jumper cable from the positive post on the battery to the post on the starter, don't connect solid, just hold it to the battery post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47 deuce alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 3:32am
Originally posted by Alpine Alpine wrote:

I tried starting fluid with the same result. Lots of cranking, plenty of power, but it never tried to turn over and start. 

You should change your condenser just to be on the safe side. Also check the points for fouling, rotor and cap, coil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 4:51am
Originally posted by Alpine Alpine wrote:

I tried starting fluid with the same result. Lots of cranking, plenty of power, but it never tried to turn over and start. 


Congratulations, you just found out that your main problem is not fuel related. If it were, the engine would have started on starting fluid.

While you may have a fuel issue, it is not what is keeping the Jeep from starting. 

Now to test the ignition system, pull the large wire/cable from the center of the distributor cap. Hold it about 1/4" away from the block while someone cranks the engine over with the ignition switch in the on position. It should throw a bright blue spark. If it doesn't find out why. I always suspect the condenser first. Because, IME, It is usually the problem.

Let us know what you find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swampman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 3:23pm
First thing I do , cause it easy and non intrusive , is hook up a test light and touch it to negative side of coil , If it flashes when cranking you know points and coil are doing their jobs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 4:55pm
Classic symptoms of bad condenser.

Most of the time it’s not a good idea to just throw parts at things until it works, but condensers are cheap and easy to change, and your symptoms are very typical of condenser failure. I would change the condenser and see what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 5:02pm
So this morning, I went out and it started on the first try. I let it warm up, pushed the choke all the way in, and let it idle for a while. Everything seems fine, so I drove it around the block. When I got back I turned it off, waited for about 3 minutes, tried to start it, and it just cranks and cranks without turning over. 

I have no idea if this related at all but when driving and idling, the engine sounds great, but if you listen to the exhaust it sounds like it is struggling and sputtering. It is difficult to accelerate in 1st gear due to the sputtering but when I shift to second or third it drives much better. 

My only recent changes are a new carb and starter both installed in the last few weeks. The starter made a huge difference and it was starting great for the past several days until yesterday. I was actually surprised when it started this morning. 

What could it be? Timing? Condenser? Points? ???????????????????????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 5:04pm
smfulle - you posted as I was typing. I will try the condenser but are there any other ideas. Condenser is probably a year old with many attempts to start but not what I would call a ton of driving. It took me a few years to realize my newly rebuilt starter was bad. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 5:07pm
Also, is the consensus that the bosch condenser the best one? Or is the Joes Motor Pool one good?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 10:09pm
I just let it sit for about 4hours and it started right up? So I assume something is heating up and not working. Is that likely the condenser? Sorry for all the posts just trying to provide as much info as possible.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47 deuce alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr. 2019 at 11:00pm
I would suspect the coil. Below is info from a previous post:
Coils don't always just "die" I've had at least two that start and idle just fine but when they get hot they short out internally and shut the engine down. But after it cools down it makes connection again and it will work again till it gets hot.
I have also had two coils to do the same as above. Start and run fine when cool, won't run after coil heats up.


Edited by 47 deuce alpha - 07 Apr. 2019 at 11:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr. 2019 at 2:27am
Originally posted by Alpine Alpine wrote:

I just let it sit for about 4hours and it started right up? So I assume something is heating up and not working. Is that likely the condenser? Sorry for all the posts just trying to provide as much info as possible.  


Bolding mine.

Yes! Either the coil, or the condenser, or both, can overheat & fail.

The next time it will not start, using the back of your hand, bring it close to the coil & see how hot it is. It should not be very warm. You should be able to lay your hand on it. If it is scalding hot, you have found at least one of your problems. This test also works on the condenser. If either or both of these components is/are scalding hot, replace it/them.

Keep in mind that just because they are cool to the touch does not mean that they are good. Yet if they are scalding hot, they are bad.

I have to ask, when it would not start did you check the coil wire for spark as I suggested up-thread?

IHTH, Cpt Logger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr. 2019 at 2:41am
You can kill off a coil by accidentally leaving the ignition key in the on/start position for an extended period of time, if the points happen to be in the closed position.  If you suspect you did this, or know for sure that you did, I would replace the coil and clean up or replace the points.  

Never forget to turn the ignition key off.
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