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Hood differences

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GaryArf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hood differences
    Posted: 10 Dec. 2006 at 4:36am
I've noticed some slight differences in hoods on my Jeeps and others that I've looked at. I'ld like to show them here, kinda like a spotters guide.
  I am missing one that I know of and would apprecate it if someone would post a pic. It is of a Ford buyback hood with the "F" stamp crossed off or punched out. This hood is from some of the earliest Jeeps and has  captured nuts in the holes on the rear support.
 
                             HOOD assembly  Part No. 663084
 
 This one is on Jeep #58500. I also compared it to #28xxx, #34692 and these are the same.  I'm looking at the holes in the rear support. There are two of these and are square. 
 
 
 
This one is of Jeep #147xxx and the holes are round.
 
 
This is a 3A hood. Just to compare the differences. The rear support is a single piece and has a sepparate hinge with a serrated leg. The 2A ones are three piece and the hinge is integrated in the middle support.
 
 
Does anyone have a pic of the early hood to share? (one with the captured nut?)
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Howard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2006 at 9:41am
Gary, The hood on 23353 has the Ford mark stamped out on the hindge. I am a little unclear as to your caged nut request or description... where is the caged nut you are looking for on the 'other' hood style?  
Here is the F mark on my 2A hood hindge...under the waffle head stamp between two of the mount bolts....
Howard


Edited by Howard - 10 Dec. 2006 at 9:45am
Howard F Jewett

1946 CJ2A #23353

43 GPW 106505 USA #20366014

43 Bantam Trailer T3 #14844

52 M100 K1119
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GaryArf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2006 at 11:30am
Howard,
The hood you have should have a threaded nut behind the holes I was detailing. This was for the ground straps that were present on the MB GPW military Jeeps for radio suppression. I was talking with Jim R at northstar Willys and looking at #10087 and he had the same (blocked out "F") along with the captive nut. Yours doesn't have that?
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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sean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2006 at 2:54pm
Gary:

16279 has the square holes w/out captive nuts:

    

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2006 at 3:15pm
Duh...I forgot about the bonding straps in the militaries...Gary, my hood has the square holes and NO nuts...
Also the left hood block mount holes are different distance from center than the right. This is another feature I would like more information on as well. Vacuum wiper on the drivers side?
 I still don't understand the conflict of the left hood block and the top snaps on the windshield frame on my CJ.
Howard
 
Howard F Jewett

1946 CJ2A #23353

43 GPW 106505 USA #20366014

43 Bantam Trailer T3 #14844

52 M100 K1119
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2006 at 8:55am
#31662 has square holes, i cannot tell about the "F" thing, as the hinge is quite rusted..low
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2006 at 9:29am
Gary,
I'm curious, did Willys stamp buyback hoods used on a CJ2A's with the "WILLYS" logo, or just leave them as is?
 
CJAlaska
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GaryArf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2006 at 1:30pm
CJAlaska,
Thats a good question. As I was talking with Jim R. he seemed to think that Willys stamped the buy back hoods. I can see them doing that, but his hood didn't have the extra holes and backer that would be present for the windshield hold-downs, grease gun, ect. I don't know if the military drilled those after or punched them when they stamped the hood out.
 His had the captured nuts and he thought all the early ones had them...Well we are now seeing that they don't. The hinge still is turning up with an F stamp that has been altered though without the captured nuts.?
I'm thinking that maybe some early middle braces were left over from the military with the captured nut installed and used on a new "WILLYS" hood skin. As those were used up and there was no point in the captured nut, that step was eliminated. The tooling must have stayed the same as there was no good reason to change it.
The "F" stamped hinges could have just been that..Extra stock Ford produced hinges that were bought by ACM (American Central Manufacturing) or Willys. Ford being the way Ford was in the war didn't want their name on the part, since it didn't biuld the final product.
 
This is all hypothesis, conjecture, with no data to back it up. Anybody's guess is as good as mine. It would be interesting to know the real story
here.
Gary
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2006 at 3:35pm

Gary,

Thanks for the info. Your theory about Willys using the Ford braces with their own skins seems plausable, it sure explains the missing captured nuts, and looks to me like the captured nuts would have been installed before mating the brace to the skin.
Anyway I have a GPW hood with the document holder still on it & "F" stamp right where your pic shows the overstamp, in case you need any pix, measurements, whatever.
CJAlaska
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oakes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec. 2006 at 6:31am
It's just the hinge that is the Ford item.
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES, THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry 45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec. 2006 at 7:18pm
My 1945 CJ-2A, Ser. # 11802, has the crossed out Ford "F" on the hood hinge.
Do you need a photo of it?
Jerry


Edited by Jerry 45 - 12 Dec. 2006 at 7:19pm
1945 CJ-2A 11802
1946 CJ-2A 19249
1948 VJ-2 Jeepster
"They can have my Jeep when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry 45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec. 2006 at 5:39pm
Gary;
Here are three photos of the hood hinge on my 1945 CJ-2A, serial # 11802. It is the "newest" 1945 CJ that I am aware of, kind of the "anchorman" for the year!
I hope these photos will help you out.

Hood Hinge Wide shot:


"F" Marked hood hinge:


Hinge/hood capture nut:


If you need larger versions, please let me know.
Jerry
1945 CJ-2A 11802
1946 CJ-2A 19249
1948 VJ-2 Jeepster
"They can have my Jeep when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec. 2006 at 5:54pm
That looks like a "rivnut" type insert. Very interesting. Thanks for posting! Jim R. has a little different stamping to get rid of the "F" I'll get that pic in Jan.
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec. 2006 at 5:46pm
Here is #10658's hood. ( complements of Louie Larson)
He has the captuered nuts, and the same Ford Stamp, It's the rust spot that your looking at 1/2 into the hinge. (Looks just like Jerry's) 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Is there anyone past Jerry's "Last '45" that has these captured nuts....Come on now, I know you will have to go look. Are you the last one?
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnkhoffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec. 2006 at 5:05am
13431 has the "F" stamped over.  I don't think it has the captured nuts.
 
Gary Hoffman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Kilbourne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar. 2007 at 4:49pm

The real story on the "F" marked hoods proabaly goes more like this...

ACM made these hoods with the same tooling and process as the WWII hoods...Fact, ACM was the Ford hood supplier from OCT 1943 to the end of the war...

The hood support channel was pre-punched with the "F"...that is the stamping tool was made with the "F" already in it...and the holes for the captive nuts....this part was the same whether it was a late 45 MB or GPW hood... 

So what you are seeing is post war CJ hoods being assembled with the hat support channel that has not been adjusted for tooling, as the hood side panels were with the words Willys stamped in. The captive nuts were just a "delete" from assembly instruction on the unchanged hat channel.
 
It is nearly impossible to assemble a hood, then remove the captive nuts and then stamp in willys...the buy back is not a feasible explanation.  
 
So the "f" was just stamped out...until tooling changed for a new hat channel....
 
Believe it or not cash was short for Folks like Willys and ACM post war and tooling changes were kept to the bare mins to make product and profit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar. 2007 at 6:24am
Jim:

Welcome to our little "quasi-MB" forum!  It's nice to know your knowledge is here now, to help us sort out the military/civilian issues.

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Kilbourne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar. 2007 at 6:36am
Hi Sean,
 
thanks for the welcome, sorry to "bluster" in though....
 
I have had some CJ2s off and on over the years and never kept one to restore and not let go....like a dummy..
 
any way, I found a mid 46 recently and will be picking it up soon...when I do there will be a post on the "story" forum as this jeep has a neat one...
 
and I will contribute whatever I can and try to learn what I dont know...
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