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Horn wire tube

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unclemoak View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 May 2019 at 8:47pm
I'm sure like many others in the past tore my steering box down for a rebuild only to find the horn wire tube was broken. Since replacement tube are non-existent and I didn't want to rob one from a good steering box, I decided to make one. 

I spent a few hours yesterday trying to figure out how to make the inside flare that acts as a stop for the freeze plug. I was considering finding a tube bead roller that was small enough to work with ~1/4" tubing, but felt that was a pretty limited use tool. After an hour or two of searching and looking at various bead rollers and flare tools, I found that such a thing exists as a GM fuel line flare die. Turns out that this would be almost perfect for the inside flare, unfortunately though they aren't made for 1/4" line, only 5/16" and 3/8". After a little measuring I found that a 5/16" line would easily still fit inside the worm shaft, so that was what I decided to do. 

A quick order on Amazon for a Mastercool flaring tool (thank god for Amazon next day delivery!!!) and some 5/16" hard line from the local parts store, this is the process I used to make a new horn tube.

Here you can see the broken tube in the middle and another on top that I scavenged from another steering box.


The first step was to cut the existing flare and fittings off the hard line I picked up at the store.





The scavenged horn tube was about 8" long, but my broken one was a good bit shorter, so I went with the longer option.


This tubing is pretty easy to cut and deburr with a normal pipe cutter.



These are the dies used to make a GM fuel line flare. The die on the left holds the tubing and the right one squishes it all the flare it out.


After a few trial runs, I found that the dies don't play well with the coating that's on the tubing. Thankfully it easily sands off.


Line the tubing up with the end of the holding die.


Get it loading in the hydraulic flaring tool.


Load the other die and squish it.


Darn near perfect.



The existing hole in the freeze plug was a weird size and didn't fit the 5/16" tubing. 



I first tried opening it up to 19/64", but that was a bit too tight, so I went to 5/16"


The last step was to flare the end to keep the freeze plug on and seal it.



The flaring tool isn't exactly designed to do this, but I found if I reversed the holding die, it made made the GM flare set against the die and allowed the use of the 45* flare to smash it.


Here's the 45* die


I found that the original holding die that I tried to use was too tall to allow the 45* to be used, so as you can see I switched to one of the other holding dies in the kit.


I'd say it came out pretty well.






Edited by unclemoak - 19 May 2019 at 8:49pm
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Rus Curtis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 10:56pm
unclemoak,
I'd been wondering for a long time how to recreate this part - as you'd mentioned no one else offers it.  I didn't know about the flare kit you found. 
 
Excellent work! 
 
This should go under "Member Created Parts"  just as soon as you work out a price!
 
Well done!
Rus Curtis
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unclemoak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 11:43pm
Thanks Rus!

I was very disappointed that I rebuilt my steering box and put the horn tube I welded back together in, only to find out after I got it completely re-installed back in the jeep that the horn tube had cracked/leaked.

The flare kit was pretty expensive ($300+), but I'll have to get some supplies to make some more for other members.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triton28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 5:48pm
Unclemoak, Great write-up! I would be interested in purchacing your fix when your ready.
Thanks
Keith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 5:53pm
  I just checked mine and it looks fine, but it is not clear to me what purpose the tube serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Oldpappy Oldpappy wrote:

  I just checked mine and it looks fine, but it is not clear to me what purpose the tube serves.
 
Clearly the purpose is to frustrate the jeep owner!
 
My understanding is it is a dry pathway for the horn wire (the top should reach above the lube level in the case) and as it's attached to the bottom plug (that probably had the intention of sealing and preventing leaks).
 
The Service Manual diagrams show the wire path inside the Tube and Cam (steering wheel shaft) but I haven't seen anything specifically about the "Cover And Tube" that would explain its purpose.  Even the electrical Horn section doesn't really explain it other than saying if you have a horn wire installed, it should be sticking out of that hole.
 
 
 
Rus Curtis
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smfulle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 8:27pm
The tube was a later evolution of the horn wiring. Not sure when it came to be, but my rig is a 48 and it does not have the tube, instead the horn wire comes out a hole in the steering column and is connected to the horn wire via a brass ring on the steering shaft and a spring loaded brush screwed to the opening in the column tube. 

There's a couple of pictures of the horn connection on the column in this thread.

This thread in the parts project shows a couple of good pictures of how the tube goes through the Ross box in later models.




Stan
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JeepSaffer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 8:38pm
Unclemoak, have you checked that the 5/16 tubing fits all the way up inside the worm gear, as it would be when installed in the Ross box? There is an internal constriction where the gear meets the steering shaft. If you measured clearance of the horn tube only at the bottom of the worm gear, you may find that it doesn't fit come time to install the worm gear into the Ross box.

Just check this before you install your part into a Ross box.

Mike
1948 CJ2A #204853 in South Africa
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unclemoak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

The tube was a later evolution of the horn wiring. Not sure when it came to be, but my rig is a 48 and it does not have the tube, instead the horn wire comes out a hole in the steering column and is connected to the horn wire via a brass ring on the steering shaft and a spring loaded brush screwed to the opening in the column tube. 

There's a couple of pictures of the horn connection on the column in this thread.

This thread in the parts project shows a couple of good pictures of how the tube goes through the Ross box in later models.





You are correct Stan. My Jeep is an early '49 CJ3a, so the horn wire goes up the center of the worm vs the earlier brush style in the first link you posted.
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unclemoak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by JeepSaffer JeepSaffer wrote:

Unclemoak, have you checked that the 5/16 tubing fits all the way up inside the worm gear, as it would be when installed in the Ross box? There is an internal constriction where the gear meets the steering shaft. If you measured clearance of the horn tube only at the bottom of the worm gear, you may find that it doesn't fit come time to install the worm gear into the Ross box.

Just check this before you install your part into a Ross box.

Mike

Yessir. I checked and it fits just fine. I have the box reassembled and put back in the jeep without issue. 

I did consider that when chosing 5/16" vs the original ~.280" size. Seemed to work fine on the couple worms that I tried it in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 2:02pm
Mine is a very late (probably December) 48 CJ2a, and has the CJ3A frame and steering box.

Most of the flat fender Jeeps I have owned in the past were older and had the earlier horn wire connected to a brass sleeve halfway up the shaft. The only one I had which would have had the later steering box was a M38 and I did the Saginaw steering conversion on that one.

So, this is my first time rebuilding one of these later steering boxes. Now that I see it, the tube makes perfect sense.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McGee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar. 2021 at 8:53pm
Thanks to all y’all on the forum for advice on the horn circuit. I’ll throw in a couple pennies about something I hadn’t seen: when soldering your horn wire to the brass collar on the steering shaft, make the solder bead flat, or hammer it down, so that it doesn’t make contact with the outer tube. It was a hoot and a toot every time my steering wheel went to the two o’clock position!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar. 2021 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

The tube was a later evolution of the horn wiring. Not sure when it came to be, but my rig is a 48 and it does not have the tube, instead the horn wire comes out a hole in the steering column and is connected to the horn wire via a brass ring on the steering shaft and a spring loaded brush screwed to the opening in the column tube. 


  I think it was one of those things that changed sometime “mid-year” in 1948. 
BW 

Edit to add:
  The Tube and Cam (aka Worm and Shaft), the Steering Gear Housing, the Column and Bearing (outer tube), and the Horn Cable (wire), all changed to different part numbers after Serial Number 178361. At the same time the “Plug (1-1/4” expansion)” changed to “Plug and Tube (in lower end of housing)”.
BW 



Edited by Bruce W - 04 Mar. 2021 at 10:06pm
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2021 at 12:13am
I much prefer a steering box with this setup, it is a lot easier to fix the horn on these than the older version. Getting a good solder joint on the older version has always been a problem for me. 
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote outlw21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2021 at 3:21am
might put a little sealant on the parts before the last flare to prevent leaks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2021 at 3:49am
Originally posted by outlw21 outlw21 wrote:

might put a little sealant on the parts before the last flare to prevent leaks.

  I was thinking maybe some solder or brass after. 
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
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