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How to Fuel Inject Willys L134 with Holley Sniper

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Nick_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 9:43am
I do find the "what if it fails" argument a bit amusing but understandable. Does everyone keep a spare axle shaft for each side of the rear and front end, alternator, distributor, coil, wheel hubs and keys, carb gaskets and jets, clutch linkages, water pump, starter, mechanical fuel pump, etc in their rig at all times? Not necessarily. I was almost taken out on the Rubicon because my brand new alternator failed me. Something so simple.

There is a reason certified aircraft have redundancy built in - because anything can fail. I do believe you could swap a carb and fuel pump on very quickly if you keep all the parts if that is your backup plan. However, if you're rolling in a 40k truck with 5k trailer and 10-20k Willys while on a cross country trip that cost you $3k, what's it hurt to keep another 1k worth of spare EFI parts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 10:01am
Indeed, anyone driving a 75 year old vehicle should be well versed in the "What If" scenario.  I think it all comes down to mechanical vs electrical.  While problems in both can be overcome, the mechanical is much more evident as to what the problem is and the solution is mechanical.  Electrical; not so much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 10:22am
The carb will get you home, that doesn’t mean it’s not painful at times (angles, high elevation, etc)

I run efi and I carry spare parts.   Both have merit. Diversity is what make this forum fun. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 12:08pm
Don't know many carbs that will run on what a 55PSI fuel pump. Nor do I know of a Pressure regulator that would go from 55PSI to less then 7 PSI.

So it would require a LOT more then pulling the Sniper and throwing a carb on to get home.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 12:30pm
PROPANE ...Big smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 12:57pm
Here are my planned tests for the video:

1. Timed swap from EFI back to a carburetor 
2. Carb vs EFI mpg on a 20 mile round trip
3. Carb vs EFI throttle response
4. Carb vs EFI cold and hot start
5. EFI driving and starting on extreme inclines 

I'm going to start these today and hopefully have a video up Sunday. If you guys have any other cool ideas let me know asap... except a dyno and propane and propane accessories!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:

Don't know many carbs that will run on what a 55PSI fuel pump. Nor do I know of a Pressure regulator that would go from 55PSI to less then 7 PSI.

So it would require a LOT more then pulling the Sniper and throwing a carb on to get home.




If you are referring to my comments, that’s why I used the generic term “regulate” whether that means another fuel pump or whatever, not necessarily a restriction valve.

Since there is a return line, it might be possible to divert the excess fuel back in the tank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 1:35pm
Monitor engine temp while testing then find a similar 2a and have a drag race.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 1:51pm
I’d be curious to hear how the IAC responds when you go over an obstacle.

How is throttle response when you let off?   Is it linear with the pedals?

Edited by jpet - 09 Dec. 2021 at 1:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

...... except a dyno and propane and propane accessories!

Awwwwwww, darn........LOL



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec. 2021 at 9:53pm
If the water faucet, I mean carburetor, was in decent condition and tuned I would not be surprised if it out powered the EFI system.  I would think that this particular EFI system is more about, smoothness and drivability than making horsepower numbers but we'll let the numbers roll in shortly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2021 at 9:48am
This morning I called local dyno shops. The only one that specializes in Holley Sniper is booked until February at the earliest. $400 for initial 3 hours, $125 each hour after. For the moment I think I'll do some good old drag racing in the driveway.

Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

I’d be curious to hear how the IAC responds when you go over an obstacle.

How is throttle response when you let off?   Is it linear with the pedals?

I can't remember, but does your 4.3 think it's about to stall then overcorrects and lurches forward? Just want to get an accurate comparison test for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2021 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

This morning I called local dyno shops. The only one that specializes in Holley Sniper is booked until February at the earliest. $400 for initial 3 hours, $125 each hour after. For the moment I think I'll do some good old drag racing in the driveway.

Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

I’d be curious to hear how the IAC responds when you go over an obstacle.

How is throttle response when you let off?   Is it linear with the pedals?


I can't remember, but does your 4.3 think it's about to stall then overcorrects and lurches forward? Just want to get an accurate comparison test for you.


Mine seems to have a low speed idle of 530 RPM and a higher idle of about 800 rpm.   Whenever you let off the gas, the motor drops down to 800 rpm for a second or two and then drops to 530.

This can be annoying going over rocks or down hill. You just touch the gas slightly to get over something but then it goes on and high idles for a second or two   

I can solve this by just unplugging the IAC but then I have to remember to plug it back in before I shut the motor off or it gets out of calibration. It’s not a huge deal. I have just adjusted my driving habits to accommodate. I have not heard anyone else with 4.3 TBI complain about this so it may just be a malfunction becoase some components are missing.

Edited by jpet - 10 Dec. 2021 at 11:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2021 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

I do find the "what if it fails" argument a bit amusing but understandable. Does everyone keep a spare axle shaft for each side of the rear and front end, alternator, distributor, coil, wheel hubs and keys, carb gaskets and jets, clutch linkages, water pump, starter, mechanical fuel pump, etc in their rig at all times? Not necessarily. I was almost taken out on the Rubicon because my brand new alternator failed me. Something so simple.

There is a reason certified aircraft have redundancy built in - because anything can fail. I do believe you could swap a carb and fuel pump on very quickly if you keep all the parts if that is your backup plan. However, if you're rolling in a 40k truck with 5k trailer and 10-20k Willys while on a cross country trip that cost you $3k, what's it hurt to keep another 1k worth of spare EFI parts?

In the decade I ran Edelbrock's Pro-Flo 2 on my 3B, I had nary a single problem.  The only extra component I carry is a fuel pump.  I went with Pro-Flo 4 on the new engine.  It still uses the same pump.  The only other electrical component I carry is a spare regulator for the Premier Power welder.  That has been on the B for about 15 years with no problems.

I don't carry much for mechanical replacements either.  Just a set of drive flanges, along with the usual assortment of fittings, fasteners, belts, and fluids.  That is part of the reason I have ran full float rear axles for nearly 50 years.  Redundancy.  With a winch, you can extricate yourself in front wheel drive if necessary.  In 60 something years of off roading, I have yet to walk out of anywhere.

I think the discussion of what sorts of replacement parts to carry all comes back to probability of failure.  You could carry a complete extra Jeep and still have failure.  Where does one set the risk limits?  Taken to conclusion, you could carry so many extra parts that you enhance the chance of failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3A Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2021 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

I do find the "what if it fails" argument a bit amusing but understandable. Does everyone keep a spare axle shaft for each side of the rear and front end, alternator, distributor, coil, wheel hubs and keys, carb gaskets and jets, clutch linkages, water pump, starter, mechanical fuel pump, etc in their rig at all times? Not necessarily. I was almost taken out on the Rubicon because my brand new alternator failed me. Something so simple.

There is a reason certified aircraft have redundancy built in - because anything can fail. I do believe you could swap a carb and fuel pump on very quickly if you keep all the parts if that is your backup plan. However, if you're rolling in a 40k truck with 5k trailer and 10-20k Willys while on a cross country trip that cost you $3k, what's it hurt to keep another 1k worth of spare EFI parts?



Nick, you nailed it. "40k truck, 5k trailer and 10-20K Willys and a trip that cost $3K. Yes, I broke both right side axles and you got my generator (didn't work well for you, sorry). I have been thinking of either picking up four spare axles or just driving better and going with the flow if things break (and I enjoyed the repair adventure as much as the trail). However, even if I had all the stuff I needed I would have been out of luck without an equipped shop to get the rear axle out of the differential). If the efi quits you probably could replace it with a carb on the trail. I might try the Sniper on an L-161 that I am about ready to throw away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2021 at 4:54pm
Well if you decide to run the L161 you should find another water pump core and get it rebuilt. They have proven to be rare as hens teeth and a 90 day wait to have rebuilt. The distributor is also unique and the vacuum advance can is unobtanium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3A Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2021 at 5:02pm
Found the core on the Old Willys Forum. Its in now. Its the whole enchilada with the L161. Should just put a smc or a V6 in, or maybe a Sniper? Love Nick's always looking for a better way while trying to stick with the original base. I think he may be able to figure out how to get a reliable 100 hp out of the go devil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec. 2021 at 11:52pm
Amazing stuff, Nick!   You do excellent work.

These mods remind me of a time I stumbled on a National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association event in Indiana.   Old tech firearms, all nicely built in modern unobtanium metals on precision CNC machines.

A fascinating juxtaposition of the old and new.
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