|
|
|
How to Fuel Inject Willys L134 with Holley Sniper |
Post Reply 
|
Page <1234> |
| Author | |||
dluber 
Member 
Joined: 24 May 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 817 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: 11 Dec. 2021 at 4:13pm |
||
|
I watched the video this morning and glad to see a working system on a L134. Great job!
|
|||
 |
|||
|
GrandpasOld50
Member
Joined: 31 Oct. 2017 Location: Ogden, UT Status: Offline Points: 84 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Dec. 2021 at 1:08am |
||
|
This project is awesome! Nick, you did a great job and I really appreciated the video.
Not to hijack the thread, but reading through this and watching the video made me wonder if some of those out there that put tbi 4.3's in their jeeps would have stayed with the original motor if the Holley or Hamilton systems were available when they decided to make the swap.
|
|||
|
'50 3a with f-head motor
|
|||
|
|||
|
wfopete
Member
Joined: 27 Nov. 2020 Location: Dover, Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 305 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Dec. 2021 at 9:16am |
||
|
Update, update, update!
|
|||
|
Suffer Fools, Gladly!
U.S. Army Iraq Veteran (ret.) |
|||
|
|||
|
Nick_
Member
Sponsor Member Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1138 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Dec. 2021 at 12:28pm |
||
|
I took all of your video suggestions and spent the last week performing tests of the Holley Sniper EFI vs carburetor. The first section showcases the EFI on some pretty extreme angles - any steeper and I’d be on my lid. Second was fuel mileage. Third was 0 to 50 mph times. Things I’ve learned this past week: 1. Battery voltage and charging system is key. If your Jeep cannot keep up with the electrical demands of the Sniper, the Sniper itself will perform poorly. When my battery was fully charged with a good charging system, I had no problems firing up the Jeep with smooth idle. When the battery was a low with inadequate charging system, I had to crank the Jeep over a few times before it would fire. It would also stumble at idle as the coil wasn’t receiving necessary voltage to operate properly. 2. The air cleaner horn kept falling off due to the Sniper having a very short upper adapter lip. I fixed this by using a zip-tie to hold the passenger side of the horn down. Not a great solution, but it worked for the video. This is my only real complaint with the Sniper design. 3. I didn’t see or feel any performance gains with the EFI,
which isn’t surprising. The Jeep L134 engine was derived from the Willys Whippet
which was introduced in 1926 by individuals who went to college in the 1910’s.
This is well over 110 years ago. Simply put, the L134 isn’t efficient due to
the head design – most notably the intake and exhaust manifolds. You can find
some ice/sand racing Jeeps that have improved upon this and doubled HP just by
adding custom heads with more efficient airflow. With a stock L134… is what it
is. Carb vs EFI As
I mentioned in my YouTube video, why have running water in your house when you
have a well pump outside? Why internal combustion when steam works? Simply put:
A complex EFI system is more reliable than carbureted in terms of startup, mpg,
and overall driving characteristics. A screwdriver will never out-tune a computer. Yes a carburetor is easier to fix with a
screwdriver, but it simply doesn’t possess the computer power of learning fuel
maps, altitude, temperature, and driving characteristics into its fuel map at
every operating second. The downsides of an EFI setup is that it’s extremely picky. If your Jeep isn’t 100% up to par, you’re going to have troubles – which is a pain. I have quickly found all the flaws on my Jeep. Final Thoughts Although it’s frustrating
to find issues that would work with a carburetor but don’t work with the
Sniper, overall I’m happy it’s making for a more reliable setup. Personally I will never go back to a carburetor on my modified Jeeps. I hope this
post doesn’t sound aggressive towards carbs, it’s difficult to convey tone
through words. I love the Sniper so much I want to scream its name from the
rooftops. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Steve I am forever grateful for your alternator! I think about our adventure to “O’Brien’s” and the mountains of Ouray quite often. It was a fun trip, and the challenges make it memorable. The happily ever after stories don’t ring with me.
Thanks! Mixing modern technology to our vintage Jeeps provides a unique interesting challenge.
I completely agree. However, I must admit I’m jealous of jpet’s 4.3 because the L134 just doesn’t have the horsepower I desire for on-road driving. For off-road I never feel the need for a bigger engine. Edited by Nick_ - 13 Dec. 2021 at 12:31pm |
|||
|
|||
|
wfopete
Member
Joined: 27 Nov. 2020 Location: Dover, Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 305 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Dec. 2021 at 3:00pm |
||
|
Well, how about that.
|
|||
|
Suffer Fools, Gladly!
U.S. Army Iraq Veteran (ret.) |
|||
|
|||
|
3A Steve
Member
Joined: 10 June 2016 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 880 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Dec. 2021 at 8:40pm |
||
|
I loved my time in Ouray with Nick. Still think I owe someone from the the Rubicon trail group who bought my 73rd birthday lunch at what used to be O'Briens at Ouray.
|
|||
|
|||
|
WeeWilly
Member
Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Dec. 2021 at 9:09pm |
||
|
Nick, couldn't you put that cross piece you took off of the throttle body back on and drill a hole in the air horn and use something like a button head bolt to hold it on for a clean look?
Jim
|
|||
|
47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
|
|||
|
|||
|
Chicodave
Member
Joined: 13 May 2019 Location: Chico, Tx Status: Offline Points: 96 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Dec. 2021 at 5:58pm |
||
|
Here is a bypass adjustable regulator that might work for the emergency carb scenario.
https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Regulator-Universal-Injection-Accessories/dp/B099MCCTQX/ref=asc_df_B099MCCTQX/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=548769735040&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4056426386938475713&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027290&hvtargid=pla-1435242699519&psc=1 Nick, your videos keep getting more professional and informative. Great job!!  |
|||
|
1949 CJ3a "Crap Game"
1951 Willys Truck 1950 Studebaker 2R5 1952 Chevy 3100 5 window |
|||
|
|||
|
Rick G
Member
Joined: 17 May 2015 Location: Amarillo, TX Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec. 2021 at 3:36am |
||
I'm a little late to this thread, but I love the innovation and the advancement of the hobby. I, too, despise carburetors and am a huge fan of EFI. Someone once told me that carbs are just a controlled fuel leak (eventually, into the bottom end). Yep, they are. But, they work and I've been fortunate enough to get them back to home base with my trusty screwdriver. I was much like you, Nick, when I was first designing the restomod for Gus, back in the 80's. I wanted to keep the L134, T90, D18, but have fuel injection (later in the 90's), electronic ignition, power steering, tilt steering wheel, disc brakes, coil springs, etc. etc. This was all before the interweb and most of my info was gleaned from magazines and actual catalogs. Some of these mods actually made it into the rebuilding of Gus, but with the discovery of this site and the friends I've made along the way, Gus has slowly regressed back to near "stock" form. Gone are the large wide floatation tires, tilt wheel, and electronic ignition. I've got nothing against all those mods, and I love to see them, but for me, closer to stock is where it's at. As an added benefit, when I wheel with fellow stockers or locker-stockers, we can share parts. I realized when I was the only one in the group (at that time) running electronic ignition, if I had a problem, I was on my own...or at worst, on the end of a rope being pulled home. Everyone carries spare condensers and points, so I swapped back to that. So, to answer your question: "Does everyone keep a spare...": axle shaft for each side of the rear and front end? Yes, both rear shafts and both front shafts alternator? No, but now I'm thinking about it distributor? Yes, complete electronic distributor as well as extra points and condensers coil? Yes, as well as extra ballast resistors wheel hubs and keys? Hubs, yes. Keys, no because I don't have keys with full-floating axles carb gaskets and jets? Yes, as a complete separate carb clutch linkages? Yes (both sizes), as well as extra brake rods water pump? No, but I'll look into it starter? No, because I can be pull/push started or hand cranked mechanical fuel pump? I have an on-board electric fuel pump as backup to the mechanical etc? Yes, MB type removable tie-rod knuckle arms, tie rod ends, complete spare leaf spring, axle u-bolts, front and rear driveshafts, DD steering rod, steering u-joints (both single and double cross), regular u joints, spindles, radiator hoses, wheel bearings, drive flanges, transmission output gear (in case my OD craters), fan belt, pinion yokes (for diffs and transfer case), and of course, nuts, bolts, and tools to replace all these parts. "in their rig at all times?" Not all the time, but I had all this and more when we were on the Rubicon. I carry extra parts proportional to the distant from my support rig and my house. When I'm close to home and close to my support rig, sometimes I don't even carry a spare tire.  Keep up the good work, Nick!
|
|||
|
|||
|
Joe Friday
Moderator Group 
Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 26 Dec. 2010 Location: Jeep Central Status: Offline Points: 3655 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec. 2021 at 4:52am |
||
|
Well said Rick.
You speak my language... Jeep.
|
|||
|
|||
|
wfopete
Member
Joined: 27 Nov. 2020 Location: Dover, Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 305 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec. 2021 at 5:21am |
||
|
Ha! I'm still working on the spare tire thing.
|
|||
|
Suffer Fools, Gladly!
U.S. Army Iraq Veteran (ret.) |
|||
|
|||
|
jpet
Moderator Group
Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec. 2021 at 9:44am |
||
My truck, or “support rig” is full of parts at all times. Drive shafts, axle shafts, starter, etc. most stuff is under the back seat. Many gasket sets ... all missing one gasket .To paraphrase what Rick said, out in the field you work together and share, at least we do. To get back on topic, as more people, do the Holley sniper, it may not be necessary for everyone to have a backup. A network of friends can share one or two till the new one comes in from back order. This doesn’t help in the field but it does solve the potential long lead time for a replacement. Edited by jpet - 30 Dec. 2021 at 9:45am |
|||
|
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
|||
|
|||
|
jpet
Moderator Group
Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec. 2021 at 9:49am |
||
|
Also keep the camping gear in the “support rig” That way when the call comes to do some emergency wheelin’, I’m ready to boogie.
|
|||
|
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
|||
|
|||
|
Oldpappy
Member
Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4919 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec. 2021 at 11:58am |
||
|
How about a "Mr Fusion" conversion? |
|||
|
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
|
|||
|
|||
|
Mark W.
Member
Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Dec. 2021 at 12:34pm |
||
|
I'll answer the questions Does everyone keep a spare...":
axle shaft for each side of the rear and front end? No my Rear is a Dana 44 30 spline flanged I can't imagine 80HP being able to break any part of it. alternator? This is under consideration But any parts store in North America would have one that fits distributor? Yes, I am working towards this coil? Yes, wheel hubs and keys? Not applicable to my rear axle carb gaskets and jets? Yes on jets a couple gaskets but I have a new Weber DGV so clutch linkages? Yes (both sizes), as well as extra brake rods water pump? Thinking about this I do carry a spare fan belt starter? No, because I can Get one in a day from most any autoparts store as I am running a Toyota starter; mechanical fuel pump? Yes but its electrical etc? I run Tom Woods drive shafts so only carry a spare U Joint. I will be carrying some Tierod ends, I carry spark plugs and a full ignition tune up Radiator and heater hose and clamps Nuts bolts washers electrical repair items including head lights tail lights and all fuses and relays. And yes a complete tool kit for what I might do on the trail "in their rig at all times?" Still working on this |
|||
|
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
|||
|
|||
|
Nick_
Member
Sponsor Member Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1138 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jan. 2022 at 5:52pm |
||
|
Sorry guys I've been so busy I haven't commented on the thread - but have some great news.
Holley's Article on my Jeep: https://www.holley.com/blog/post/how_to_install_sniper_efi_onto_the_willys_go_devil_four-cylinder_in_a_flatfender_jeep/?fbclid=IwAR1JCo2aR_u4l0x6ZUDkesVb_2jEfviTZiaciWQHMOOvLumiEqZA_d3MnOk In-Take Pump Setup I can't believe it, but the Holley team watched my two YouTube videos and reached out to me. They loved the detailed installation and seeing their product on the L134. I mentioned my very near future plans to install a stock fuel tank and wanted to go with a returnless in-take pump setup like a modern vehicle, but needed something that can run at almost any angle even if the tank isn't full. We are currently working on piecing together a Jeep setup that should work for just about any extreme condition. I'll keep everyone updated as this progresses. Brennan and I talked a bit back and forth on Facebook about in-tank setups and provided some good recommendations. I spent a lot of time researching different solutions such as the Aeromotive Phantom, tanks.com PA series module, cutting up a factory GM pump from Autozone, etc. At this moment, none of them look as affective as the Holley Hydromat. Our fuel tanks are very short and wide which puts us at a disadvantage to product selection. Most people won't need to run their Jeeps on a quarter tank at 60 degree angle, but I'd sure like the ability. Anything to prevent the pump and injector losing pressure is a big plus for longevity.
This is perfect! I'm going to make the modification this weekend. Rick and Mark your posts were an interesting read. Fuel injection in the 90s? Speaking my language!
Edited by Nick_ - 06 Jan. 2022 at 7:54pm |
|||
|
|||
|
Nick_
Member
Sponsor Member Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1138 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Mar. 2022 at 6:07pm |
||
|
Wanted to share an neat little article Holley made about the Submarine: https://www.holley.com/blog/post/this_wwii-style_willys_can_conquer_the_toughest_trails_with_the_help_of_sniper_efi/
At the moment there are some crucial parts for the in-tank fuel pump setup that are on backorder, so I haven't been able to try it out. As for producing the Sniper adapter itself, we are working on some improvements over mine with the linkages and throat size. It'll definitely be worth the wait.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Mark W.
Member
Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Mar. 2022 at 12:40am |
||
|
That's pretty neat Nick. Recognition is always nice. |
|||
|
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
|||
|
|||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1234> |
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
3A Steve wrote: