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HTODG steering conversion

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Speedy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Mar. 2016 at 7:21pm
can anyone recommend what steering box is better for Herms conversion
is the 30 spline slow ratio favorable over the 36 spline fast ratio box?

I am not to experienced to know which would be favorable for street and trail driving.

my guess would be for a slow ratio,     does anyone have first hand experience?
- Mike
47 CJ2A - Warn OD, Ramsey PT1-J/Koenig 100,Arctic top,Dana 44 30 spline full float with disc's,Dana 30 with discs, 2.5 lift, Saginaw power steering, dual master cylinder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjensen641 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2016 at 8:08pm
I installed a slow ratio.  Its nice for offroad as it takes little effort to steer.  Trying to whip a U turn is about the only time you notice the slow ratio.

Just a heads up.  I don't know how his bracket is able keep the box high enough to make sure the front axle doesn't hit the pitman arm when compressed to the snubbers.  If you want to keep full suspension travel, you may want to fabricate your own.  Or you can extend the snubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2016 at 8:24pm
thanks! I thought the slow would make offroading easier. I think that is what I will go with. unless others have different views?

I heard about that, I do have a 2.5 inch lift so not sure I will experience this issue? 


anyone have part numbers for the manual steering box?


Edited by Speedy - 11 Mar. 2016 at 10:38pm
- Mike
47 CJ2A - Warn OD, Ramsey PT1-J/Koenig 100,Arctic top,Dana 44 30 spline full float with disc's,Dana 30 with discs, 2.5 lift, Saginaw power steering, dual master cylinder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjensen641 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 1:08am
Here is what I used.


A lift will help, but it would be best to extend the snubbers to ensure that it could never happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 1:10am
Slow ratio is best less jerky with an 80" WB on the highway and much easier to turn when a tire is up against a rock or tree on some trail.
 
I went with a Saginaw front mounted #525 box (same as a 68 Camaro manual would have had) 6.25 turns lock to lock. I'm running an aftermarket 15" wheel which I think will work nicely with the box.
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 1:20am
thanks!
pjensen how did you ensure it was the slow ratio? do you have pictures of your instal?

Mark, is that the same bolt pattern as the ford style?
- Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 2:22am
To each there own on the ratio but as far as mounting, this is what my friend did for me on my project:



This is a power steering ford box. If u use the manual steering there is more clearance. I started with Herm's bracket but the angle his bracket sits on does put the pitman arm nut directly above the axle as others have stated. What my buddy did was modify the bracket so that the gbox is almost parallel and then cut out the cross tube so that the gbox can be moved forward 1". What this does is put the spindle in front of the axle tube. It's not completely forward of it but at least it is not directly above it so it gives you probably 3/4" more travel before the spindle nut makes contact with the axle tube. I drove like this on the BHR and Ouray without an axle snubber. For Chinaman Gulch, Rausch Creek, and Badlands, I installed snubbers with no shims. There was a witness where the nut was hitting the axle tube but like I said, it was on the front side and it was more of a paint scuff. No dent. To completely clear, the axle would need to be moved back at least 1/2". Some may not be comfortable with that but if I were going to have real damage, I would have thought I would have had it on Chinaman or Rausch Creek black trails as they are pretty rough.

Edit: if I were not concerned about trying to hide the steering box, I would probably use a Saginaw because it would allow me to move my from axle forward some without a collision.

Edit2: a manual steering box would not have any collision at all since it is shorter.

Edited by jpet - 12 Mar. 2016 at 2:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 2:44am
Speedy the Ford Box like jpet and like Herm offers a kit for is a completely different mounting style where as I understand it the steering box is behind the cross member and uses a reverse rotation.
 
The Saginaw box I recommended mounts in front of the cross member and depending on how you mount it will be completely below the level of the top of the frame (at least on my CJ5 frame it is) The steering shaft on my setup passed below the CJ5 crossmember and theres even room for a coupler to be used.
 
Mounting the way I did required boxing the front frame sections and I additionally have a brace that goes from the right side of the frame to the output housing on the steering box.
 
the photos on this page show basically how my Steering box is setup. I am still in the building stage so it could all be crap but it appears to be working. And I think I have enough clearance for everything.
 
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 2:57am
I guess I assumed he was talking about a reverse rotation since he mentions "Herm's conversion"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 4:45am
Jpet thank you, so on your second edit are you referring to a manual steering box with your setup?
or are you saying the manual box in my application with a 2.5'' lift will be fine.  your correct Herms kit.

Mark, thats what I thought saginaw is completely different.  I was thinking you may have had more information to make it work in this application.   
- Mike
47 CJ2A - Warn OD, Ramsey PT1-J/Koenig 100,Arctic top,Dana 44 30 spline full float with disc's,Dana 30 with discs, 2.5 lift, Saginaw power steering, dual master cylinder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2016 at 7:32am
Here is a pic from Herm's site:



See how much shorter the nose is on this one compared to my power steering box? This allows you to move the box farther forward which puts the pitman arm spindle in front of the axle tube. Herm's bracket also positions the box on the same angle as the steering column but if you change the bracket as we did to make the box parallel with the road, it moves the spindle nut even more forward of the axle tube. Doing this with the manual steering box would put the nut completely forward of the axle tube and there would be no collision at full stuff. Savy?

The reverse rotation does have one advantage over the Saginaw which is that since it's not hanging out on the bumper, it's protected from rock collision.

Edit was spelling errors


Edited by jpet - 18 Mar. 2016 at 1:35pm
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"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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