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Improving the STA super traxion

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jhg View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Mar. 2023 at 4:34pm
This thread 

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/7-5-ndt-vs-6-5-supertraxion-comparison_topic51819.html

comparing NDT's and Super Traxions got me thinking how the ST might be improved.

I have run both tire designs. NDT's are the cleanest running tire I know about, clearing mud etc from the lugs very efficiently.
In mud, the difference in the tires chevrons packing with material, NDT vs ST, is obvious. I noticed that when the Traxions tread was filled the tires lost the grip that they demonstrate otherwise. The side lugs on the Traxions are very effective and you can tell when they start to grab or try to grab whatever is in path to pull the jeep forward.

I might consider cutting the chevrons in half at the apex of the "V". Here are photos showing what I feel is the only design characteristic that keeps these tires from being as good as anything out there in terms of traction.


Pic showing chevrons designed to run the tire on hard surfaced roads. The design keeps them from digging into off road material. Compare to the side lugs, which are grip kings. 



Footprint showing how little room there actually is between the segments. The center area of the tire runs almost like a homogenous single section, rather than as a series of lugs grabbing ground to make progress.




Edited by jhg - 21 Mar. 2023 at 4:35pm
1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar. 2023 at 5:21pm
Sticky mud, soupy mud, hard pack, turf, sand, pea gravel, gravel, rocks, river boulders snow, ice and pavement all provide unique problems.
You can specialize tread for specific or generalize a tread for various terrains.

To clear sticky mud I believe that true directional chevron (tractor lug) cannot be beat. Best non directional mud tire around these parts is likely the Buckshot Mudder due in large part to the exceptional deep lugs and large voids.
Deep lugs and large voids = sticky mud traction.
Of course extras like staged lugs for side biting action can also help. Think Super Swampers.

What the Super Traxion mainly lacks for use as a mud tire is large voids required for self cleaning.
IMHO the relatively few sipings need be opened way up so sticky mud can evacuate. 



Edited by oldtime - 21 Mar. 2023 at 9:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar. 2023 at 9:18pm
As much as I love old school tires, isn't cutting the lugs into a new pattern the definition of designing a modern tire tread? I'm not sure a cut up NDT still qualifies as an NDT. After all, we already know the holy grail tractor tire works in mud, rocks, snow, dirt... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar. 2023 at 10:12pm
IDK. I personally don't care much about whether a tire on an old cj is correct, modern or old school. I do however like the idea of performance.
I do have a budget though. As great as some things are- Inferno heaters, holly snipers, the greatest off road tire ever, none of them are going on my jeep because they cost way more than "regular" stuff. 

When I purchased my STA ST's they were much cheaper than any other tire I was looking at, that height.

I like the look, and am really satisfied with how they perform. It will be fun to see if changing the chevron design will show up in effectiveness, real life use. If I don't find the time to actually hack at the treads no worries. It was fun to wonder.
1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2023 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

...After all, we already know the holy grail tractor tire works in mud, rocks, snow, dirt... 
A little cocky today are we? You are forgetting one important surface, the one most of the jeeps on this forum spend the most miles on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2023 at 3:42pm
my tractors actually run surprising well on dry pavement. 

but... i am not driving on the highway nor above 50 ish mph. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2023 at 3:53pm
There’s a reason why the British refer to tractor chevrons as “dumpers”.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2023 at 6:27pm
My road experience is different.

I am in the middle of extensive research in multiple conditions, with the exact same vehicle, on the exact same obstacles, on the exact same day, at the exact same time.





When I’m finished, I will post my unbiased findings, pros, cons, and support the findings with video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2023 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

. .  research in multiple conditions, with the exact same vehicle, on the exact same obstacles, on the exact same day, at the exact same time. . . . 

The only way to do it!    Smile      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2023 at 11:36pm
Very crude look at a couple options.   Opening up the center grooves and cutting the full chevron in half.  

    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar. 2023 at 8:25am
I think your next proposed additional mod (opening up the grooves) will produce better results for a mud tire.
Your second proposed mod should improve traction for all other terrain conditions excepting pea gravel and loose sand conditions.
I think both will help and you might also consider opening up the grooves on the outer lugs (side biters) too.
For pea gravel or loose sand you basically don’t need any tread; only increase the floatation.


Edited by oldtime - 23 Mar. 2023 at 8:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar. 2023 at 8:48am
Tire researchers - There also is a difference in the hardness of the rubber used on some of these tires.  The NDTCC with the rounded edges were a mix of harnesses.  There were some made for cold weather with really soft rubber. 

My 1946 is stiff, heavy and just will not climb rocks (the driver may also be an issue).  It has Super Tractions.  On rocks the tires are damaged easily (read: Chunks of rubber get ripped off).  Perhaps they are the softer rubber.  Cutting the tire may lead to quicker damage on rocks.   Just another variable to watch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar. 2023 at 8:48am
I have no plans to modify STs for myself.   A couple them are on Bantam trailer now,  but eventually will be on a project '3A . .  which will not see any serious offroading.  In fact,  it will see gravel roads fairly often,  and bigger grooves would probably pick up more rocks and fling them. LOL

I thought it would be interesting to "see" what the tread might look like with some mods.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar. 2023 at 9:16am
Like I say the Suoer Traxions are very similar to Narriw Suoer Swampers except the NSS has 3 staged side biters.

They are also very similar to the Buckshot Mudders except the BM lugs are very much deeper.


Edited by oldtime - 23 Mar. 2023 at 9:21am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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