Issues Installing AA Roller Chain Clutch Cable |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 5:26am |
Has anyone else installed Advance Adapters roller chain clutch linkage on a '2A? I am wondering if just me, or others have experienced similar results?
This is hard to describe with words, but the "heart" of this system is a casting that holds a chain sprocket. This casting is supported by a steel bracket which is bolted to the underside of frame. In my case, there is NO WAY it will work. The casting hits the tub, (more precisely the hat channels). It might work if my '2A had .75" body lift. It will work if I heavily modify the steel bracket, but curious if others had similar issue? edit: add photo Dimension from mounting surface to top of bracket measures approx 4-5/8" My hat channel is approx 4-1/4" from bottom of frame, so there is approx 3/8" interference.
Edited by JeepFever - 16 June 2020 at 4:36pm |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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I have several types of Jeep clutch controls.
In this pic you see a 3B set up with F-134 and T98-A transmission. It has the standard Jeep “lever and tube type” of clutch control. Also I have mocked in position a Buschert “chain type” clutch control for reference. In this mock up the Buschert control has been clamped on top of the lower frame flange. The top of the Boschert sets exactly 1/2” above the top of the frame flange. So yes it could certainly contact a body tub hat channel because the normal rubber mount at this location is from 5/16” thick to 3/8” above the frame. When I position the Buschert below the frame flange, then it sets essentially flush to top of the frame, and that eliminates any possible tub interference. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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I didnt use the AA enclosed cover with my installation, I figured thar mud and dirt would collect in it over time. I used only the sprocket that should give you additional clearance. I used an idler type sprocket from TSC on a homemade bracket to clear the PTO shaft threading thru the same area.
Edited by jeeper50 - 13 June 2020 at 1:32pm |
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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nivrat
Member Joined: 27 May 2014 Location: Glendale, AZ. Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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I have the AA chain clutch in a 2A with an Lhead, T98, Dana 18 and 2" exhaust. I had to modify the frame bracket to get things to line up better. I also use CJ5 body mount bushings instead of the rubber pads. They're about an inch thick so it gives just a bit of body lift.
FWIW, Mike
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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I started out trying to modify the bracket, by simply bending it more etc, but that did not work for me because it would hit then my homemade cross-member/skid-plate. I ended up cutting off the bottom of the bracket and welding the top part to piece of angle iron.
This arrangement clears everything, and puts the chain sprocket on the same "plane" as the far end attachments (foot lever and clutch fork) Photos of mock-up, using nut temporarily to hold sprocket. (I considered leaving the cover off as Jeeper50 mentioned, but I don't need that extra clearance now.)
edit: for those who do not know, this is '46 '2A with Dauntless engine, and SM420, Dana300 Edited by JeepFever - 17 June 2020 at 5:38pm |
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otto
Member Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Offline Points: 2264 |
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https://www.thecj2apage.com/FORUMS/forum_posts.asp?TID=22804&title=parts-jeep-trail-build
May not be relevant to your situation, but my DIY chain clutch linkage is starting to look very similar to the AA unit. Made up from motorcycle chain and sprockets.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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I went to take a look, and thought it might take a while to find in a long thread, but was only 6 posts in. . . that is clever design. I noticed same thing that you mentioned, -> this chain activation puts a load on the motor and tranny mounts. When the clutch pedal is pushed to the floor, the whole engine/tranny assembly moves a little. How is it working out? Looks like this was done a long time ago, so you should have plenty of experience with it.
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otto
Member Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Offline Points: 2264 |
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It was done some time ago and was only supposed to be temporary...
The clutch starts taking up right off the floor board and requires the full sweep of the pedal travel; that’s the only thing that sorta bugs me about it. Otherwise it works fine. The jeep really hasn’t been driven that much so more time will tell if it needs refinement or not. You are right about the rearward pull on the power train, it’s like starting a chainsaw with one arm.
Edited by otto - 17 June 2020 at 10:01pm |
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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The issues with this AA unit just got much worse.
I finally got everything back together. I pulled the Jeep out of garage in low range, pushed in the clutch to shift to high range, before I could let out the clutch pedal . . "BANG" . . the pedal went to the floor and the Jeep lurched backwards.. The wire rope pulled out of the adjusting stud. Hopefully AA can supply a replacement, and I do not have to return the entire unit. (waiting to hear back from them)
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AKoller
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 Sep. 2018 Location: Moundridge Kans Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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Maybe I should have just made one for you... Don't want to jinx myself but my homemade unit is going strong. |
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1950 CJ3A "Thumper"
1966 M151 A1 1942 GPW #70221 |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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I was planning to go back to see how you did it, when I get more time. This is closer view. AA asked for a photo of the problem, I thought this might be more useful than the one above. |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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My granddaughters are visiting tomorrow, and I promised a Jeep ride. The AA replacement cable won't be here for another 4 days. Time for some bubba repairs.
My first attempt was to weld a "bulb" on the end of wire rope, drill out the original crimp, push the bulb to bottom of hole, and re-crimp, using a dull chisel. That failed on the 2nd depression of clutch pedal. The crimp did not hold. Next attempt was to drill out the crimp again, grind away the side of stud, insert the cable: After that . . weld the assembly together. Forgot to take photo, but imagine weld filling the ground away section. There are probably a dozen theoretical reasons why this will not work. . . but it so far has survived 100 test clutch pedal depressions, and a short driven test ride. If this survives until I get the replacement installed, I will probably carry it as a spare, in case of any future failure. |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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I have been driving with the bubba repair, and so far it has not pulled apart.
But during the past couple days I have noticed another issue with this set up. The clutch engagement changes when driven for a while. The only thing I can guess is that the chain elongates when hot? The clutch is adjusted to engage with pedal not far from floor, that is where I like it. When riding thru the woods yesterday with granddaughters, we came to a 3-point turn. The tranny ground a little going into reverse. I just assumed I did not have clutch depressed to floor, but it also ground going into low, and this time the pedal was definitely to the floor. (and Jeep was not rolling in either case). I did not think too much more about it, until later when going for a road ride. Before heading out, while everything was air temp, I checked the engagement, and it was at least 3/4" off the floor. Later when stopping for gas, I had to go into reverse. Again, a little grind. It was clear that the clutch was not fully disengaged, even with pedal to floor. The chain in my set up runs parallel to exhaust. 3" away at clutch pedal lever, 1" away at engine fork. I will try exhaust wrap to see if it helps.
Edited by JeepFever - 29 June 2020 at 2:09am |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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The saga continues . .
The replacement cable arrived yesterday, but I did not have time to install. This evening I removed the old bubba one, took the lock nut off, and was horrified when it "slid" onto the new one. The original is 5/16-24, I have no idea what this new one is, maybe metric?. (.270 dia). Bottom line -> it will not work with existing chain connector. Not sure if noticeable in photo, but the replacement that AA sent is definitely smaller than the original, (which had a defective crimp, and is bubba repaired) At this point, I am hoping I can get my money back, even though I heavily modified the bracket. I wish I had simply fixed the broken stud on original clutch linkage. The worst part about all this, I am hoping to go wheeling in 3 days. |
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AKoller
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 Sep. 2018 Location: Moundridge Kans Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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This has really turned into a dumpster fire for you Ron! Now I feel bad for suggesting this “upgrade”. Hopefully AA makes it right with you.
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1950 CJ3A "Thumper"
1966 M151 A1 1942 GPW #70221 |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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I should have done like you and made my own . . I thought I was taking the easy route. |
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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I doubt the chain is expanding that much from the heat. I would install another nut on the adjustment to lock to the other to keep it from turning and loosening. Is it possible your bracket moved on the frame from operation of the clutch? Make sure those bolts stay tight.
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
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I agree, I can't believe that the chain would expand that much, but it is something related to how long it runs. When cold, the engage point is back to normal (beginning to engage the clutch when pedal is approx 3/4" off floor), after running for a while, the engage point is right at the floor. ie. This is not something loose. It changes back and forth. Another thought is that the motor mounts have more give when warm. Since the engine moves backwards every time the clutch is depressed, maybe it moves more when warm? In another thread I talk about motor mounts, and recently just replaced them, (stock mounts, not something heavy duty) I took up some slack in the adjustment. Now cold, it has almost no free play, we will see what it does when warm. I was hoping to drive to work today for test, but chance of T-storms, so I elected not to.
Edited by JeepFever - 01 July 2020 at 2:10pm |
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