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Jeep and a Fire Truck

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Bill Norris View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 2:15pm
For next year Kevin and I are going to do an antique fire truck calendar (sorry no Jeep fire trucks in this one, Chrysler wants waaaayyy to much money for that). Anyway, I found out our city has a 1940 Ford American LaFrance at the DPW. I called them and they let me shoot it. Of course I drove the Jeep and got a shot of it with the old Ford. I actually had the 'new' vehicle for a change. I won't be using this image, but thought it was kind of neat. We drew a bit of crowd while we were in the park.
 
The firemen looked the Jeep over and got a little bug eyed when they asked me if I was actually sitting on the gas tank. I'm sure that has to raise some red flags with them.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 2:28pm
Bill
 
My neighbor has a few old fire trucks and the city of Waverly just opened a firetruck museum Saturday.
Still sad to hear no Jeeps next year.
 
Here we are getting ready for a controlled prairie burn:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote F Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 2:36pm
Bill do you mean to say any picture of any jeep Chrysler has rights to and can charge you for using? Dang... that is a royal PITA for you calendar guys I bet. I would think if you took the picture you would have the exclusive rights to it no matter what it is  a pic of, but it sounds like that isn't the case..
 
Allen.. is that the field behind your place??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 2:44pm

Bill

It's the neighbor just to the East.....Where the ragweed was so high?????
 
We took Bill for a ride through there (eight foot tall weeds and grass)  never knowing he had hay fever.
 
Still sorry bout that
Allen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote F Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 3:04pm
I thought I recognized the field.... did the fire take care of the weeds??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJ2aAl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 3:10pm
A friend of my family owns this,...Seagrave/Tiller                                                                                                                                                                     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harriet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 4:16pm
So, let me get this right ...
Chrysler have rights to pictures of any Jeep that are taken for any project that would have sales?
Even if they are of privately owned vehicles?
Wow.
Confused

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 8:57pm
Allen
 
That's really neat. Good to see them still in action. Alot of the shots I took were at fire musters in the state of Michigan. Most of the pumpers are actually drawing from the river and shooting back into the water. They have everything from horse drawn steam equipment to recently decommissioned stuff.
 
It sure makes you realize how cheap and easy Jeeps are. Some of these trucks get trailered around on big rigs. No Silverado tow vehicles for them. One guy had a 1962 Mack Aerial truck he literally pulled out of a junkyard and rebuilt the whole thing- tractor then trailer. I can't imagine what that restoration price tag was. You could eat off of it is was so perfect. It was pretty funny to see them take off from the show. He and his wife must be about 80 years old. He drove the front, and she drove the back.
 
I should clairfy the Jeep fee thing. If you sell a calendar with an image of a Jeep grill, use the word Jeep, Willys, Kaiser, AMC or CJ, you have to get their permission. I wanted to feature Art Gloss' '45 CJ2A with Spen water trailer. For that single image, Chrysler wanted $500 guarantee royalty and 12% royalties once you passed the guarantee minimum. I thought that was absurd. I had guessed  it would be $200 tops. So I told them to forget it, I'd use something else. Unless we sell several thousand fire truck calendars, you will not see a Jeep featured there, unfortunately. I do own the image and it can be a privately owned vehicle with a picture taken on private property, but a calendar is considered a merchandise item and not protected under the right of free speech like a book. I'm guessing that's why we have the only antique Jeep calendar out there- it is reeeaallly tough to make any kind of profit.
 
Bill


Edited by Bill Norris - 27 Sep. 2009 at 9:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by Bill Norris Bill Norris wrote:

The firemen looked the Jeep over and got a little bug eyed when they asked me if I was actually sitting on the gas tank. I'm sure that has to raise some red flags with them.
 


I'm not really sure why some people get bent out of shape about this.  The gas tank is not going to explode.  The only danger is a possible gas leak inside the jeep, but that is very unlikely since all of the actual connections are outside the jeep and on the bottom of the body tub.

If the tank were to actually explode I don't think it would make much difference if there was an extra layer of 18g sheet metal between the tank and you, similar to the way a more modern jeep is built. 

It's too bad that Chrysler is so proud of their Jeep trademark.  I would love to see a fire truck calendar based around Jeep fire trucks.
Jerry in Florida

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CW48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 10:33pm
This is really curious..."Military Vehicles" magazine yearly calendar has many pictures of Jeeps (In military colors), wonder if they are paying, or are M.V.s somehow exempt from this? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3ferris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 10:46pm
Lets see---jeeps are 60 + old---how many have blown up because of the tank being under the seat.  There is a fire truck like the old one for sale here with the pump on the front in the grill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2009 at 11:15pm
Maybe if  it's a Ford, they can't go after you?Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harriet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep. 2009 at 4:21am
I'll quote Terry here "Wow, are they that hard up? - I guess they must be!"

I know it's "their" trademark, but I find it amazing that they don't seem to want to celebrate it!
Amazing.
But then again, big business doesn't like small business anywhere.
Thanks for explaining it, it's fascinating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep. 2009 at 8:24am
I honestly don't know how the military calendars get away with it. Unless the Chrysler police just have not caught up to them yet.
 
When we started out, I got permission from Jeep marketing to make the calendars- not the licensing dept. (I met the manager of merchandise marketing at a lcoal car show- great guy). Marketing loved the idea and wanted them for their dealers. Amazingly, marketing and licensing are totally disconnected and have no idea what each other is doing.
 
I started selling them on e-bay and the licensing people found out and got all over me. I'm guessing that is how they monitor stuff- cruising e-bay and other popular selling sights. Anyway, I showed them proof I got permission from marketing and that got them to back off for 2007. After that though, we had to get a license which is ungodly expensive.
 
The two areas have different criteria too as to what is acceptable. Marketing let us call is Classic JEEPS, licensing said no, it had to be Jeep Classics. Jeep had to be capital J and lower case eep. We wanted all caps like the old days. And, Jeep can't be plural. It can only be black lettering and a certain font. That cost us a fortune to fix in 2008 when we made some for Camp Jeep under marketing's direction, and then the rest for us under licensing's terms.
 
Talking about this, I'm now starting to wonder why we bother! Wacko All this grief and we barely break even. Kevin and I have a ton of fun doing it though!Thumbs Up
 
Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep. 2009 at 9:33am
Originally posted by Bill Norris Bill Norris wrote:

I honestly don't know how the military calendars get away with it. Unless the Chrysler police just have not caught up to them yet.
 
Bill, I think the key word there is Military. The way I understand it anything produced for the military the manufacturing company does not have licensing rights to.
 
It's not just Chrysler or the auto industry with licensing departments wound just a little too tight.
 
I fly R/C planes and in the last couple years have seen airplane manufactures like Cessna and Piper have been going after kit makers that produce models of their full scale versions for royalties. This basically has casued several kit makers to just drop lines completely. Same thing is happening in with plastic car modeling too.
 
I've also heard of individual modelers that have been threatended with lawsuits becasue with their own individual R/C plane they replicated the 'sponsor markings' of a particular full scale areobatic plane. Redbull being one that comes to mind.
 
How pitiful do you have to be to send a legal team after an individual that thought it would be cool to have your logo on the side of his toy? What happened to goodwill and being proud to have your name promoted for free? 
 
Lawyers have ruined this country.
 


Edited by Scott R - 28 Sep. 2009 at 9:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep. 2009 at 9:51am

Scott,

 

I agree with you lawyers are a big problem, but corporate greed and making the shareholders happy with maximizing profit is another problem. Chrysler makes a ton of money off of us for virtually doing nothing. But, I can’t complain about it, because we keep putting up with it.

 

I do understand it to a point. They don’t want us selling something with a picture of a Jeep on it with 5 grill bars, or call a Ford Bronco a Jeep etc. Plus, our competition is limited because we have that license. Nobody else is willing to put up with this, so we have the market to ourselves. But, overall I think the amount of money they want is ridiculous. Their overhead is unbelievable with this whole thing. The number of people and departments that have to approve our calendar would blow your mind.

 

I did hear something on NPR awhile ago that the Pez company was trying to shut down a guy that opened his own Pez museum. This guy bought all the little contraptions himself and funded the whole thing himself. Their lawyers said he is not authorized to use the trademarked word Pez, so he has to close his doors. His downfall was putting up a 7 foot Pez outside that he made himself. Their licensing people did not approve it, so that was the straw that broke the camel’s back and they started pursuing shutting him down.

 

Bill

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep. 2009 at 10:03am
Quote Lawyers have ruined this country
 
Scott..I used to think that. But really its the idiot juries that make these findings. If more citizens would just say not guilty or no damages should be awarded, the lawyers and AGs would see the uselessness of bring these cases to trial. Juries used to have (and still do) the abiltity to nulify laws or say improperly applied in certain cases. Judges giving instructions that juries must find such and such if certain criteria are met is a great miscarriage of justice. More juries should tell the powers that be to stick it!


Edited by westforkboyd - 28 Sep. 2009 at 10:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep. 2009 at 10:21am
You hit on it right at the end Allen......the judges!
 
If more of the mindless garbage was thrown out before it got to a jury that would help.
 
 
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