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Jeep V-6 / Borg Warner transmissions

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oldtime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jeep V-6 / Borg Warner transmissions
    Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 1:54am

In the early 1960’s guys were installing the Buick 198 V-6 Fireball (mfg. in 1961-1962) into cj’s. 
This fact is well documented in the December 1963 issue of Hot Rod magazine.
This engine uses a special bell housing (bell) which is the same bell as the 215 V-8 Fireball .
A typical Jeep T90-A (short main drive gear) will bolt directly to this early Fireball bell pattern with no adapter.
The odd fire 198 Fireball was updated in 1964 to become the odd fire 225 Fireball.
When the V-6 was changed in 1964 the engine block was changed.
A new block and transmission bell bolt pattern was used for the 225 Fireball.

Buick being a luxury GM brand simply was not happy with their rough idling odd fires.
And Jeep well knew their 134’s were outdated and under powered.
Those early Fireball retrofits definitely helped influence Jeep to buy up this unwanted engine.
So In late 1965 Jeep bought it up and simply renamed it the 225 Dauntless.
It proved to be an ideal engine for the limited engine bay of the cj’s.
The revamped 225 Fireball bell no longer bolted direct to the T90 bolt pattern.
In fact the V-6 engine was so short that the firewall clearance benefitted from increasing the distance between engine block to transmission.
The manual transmission bell housing Jeep initially used is the GM # 9774035.
In 1965 Jeep designed a 2-5/8” thick cast iron adapter plate to mate the T86AA to the 9774035.
IMHO the unsynchronized T86AA is not very desirable.
It is not quite as strong as the T90 and parts are scarce.
By 1967 Jeep upgraded the T86AA to the Borg Warner T14 having the same bolt pattern.
The fully synchronized T14 is sufficiently strong for V-6 power but it’s ten spline main-shaft makes it an odd ball.
In 1971 Jeep designed their own T14 to Dauntless bell which basically was a
BOP bell with adapter cast together as a single unit.
If mating a T90 transmission to either the 225 Fireball or Dauntless  engines, the T90 can be mated by using a longer 1-1/8” diameter input shaft.
This transmission is the Jeep T90 J.
The T90 J was standard in Jeeps having the 226 Super Hurricane.
When mating a T90 J to the Dauntless an aftermarket adapter plate @ 2-5/8” length is required.
Another perhaps more desirable option would be to build a T90 J inside of a T86AA case so that the factory adapter plate can be used.
IMHO the Borg Warner T15 is the finest transmission that  bolts adapter less / direct to the transfer case with it’s “Texas” pattern.
When mating the strong T15 to a Dauntless a shorter 1-5/8” long adapter plate is required.
These rare adapter plates were made by “ Trans-Dapt” and Advance Adapters.
When mating the long T98, T18 or T19 to a Dauntless I feel it is best to modify the transmission case itself. 
By welding appropriate bolt lugs to the front of the 4 speed transmission cases they can be fastened direct to the 9774035.
Due to extra length of the 4 speeds it’s very important to eliminate excess drivetrain length in the early pre 1972 cj’s.

Posted in response to some v-6 fitment questions.
If you have further related question like pilot bushings  or whatever then feel free to comment and I’ll do my best to make it more complicated....


Edited by oldtime - 03 Mar. 2021 at 2:41am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobevans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 2:40am
Thank You for the info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 2:50am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 3:03am
From the magazine ....
Even though the 198 will bolt direct to a T90, it’s not desireable because the block is fully up against the firewall with transfer case in standard fore/ aft location.
Here the author used an odd sized aftermarket main drive gear and a very unique adapter plate.




Edited by oldtime - 07 Mar. 2021 at 4:00pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 3:21am
Thanks, 

This helps explain two Jeeps I have owned which had a T90, with the long input shaft, bolted directly to the bellhousing, which I wrongly assumed was a Buick bellhousing, but as you describe as: 

"In 1971 Jeep designed their own T14 to Dauntless bell which basically was a
BOP bell with adapter cast together as a single unit.
If mating a T90 transmission to either the 225 Fireball or Dauntless  engines, the T90 can be mated by using a longer 1-1/8” diameter input shaft."

This has been something that has confounded me since I first encountered it 30 years ago in a M38 I had which had a 225 V6 with the M38 T-90 bolted directly to the bellhousing without an adapter. The CJ5 I recently got has the same setup, and since this special bellhousing was only made a couple of years I think the odds of coming up on this twice are long odds.
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 3:47am
Yes. However the T90 does not bolt direct to the special long Dauntless bellhousing (1970/71) without further mods due to the bolt pattern differences.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 1:09pm
Correct, both of these bellhousings I have had were drilled and tapped for the T-90, but as far as I can tell that seems to be the only modification besides the long input shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 1:27pm
This is great, thanks! I just bought a 1966 CJ5 chassis with a 225. I will pick it up this weekend and figure out what I have then. Not sure what trans is in it, but it has a d20 tcase, and an offset rear end. I assume the d20 is not original.  I may put the 225 in my '2A. 

Edited by drm101 - 03 Mar. 2021 at 1:38pm
Dean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncamoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 1:29pm
the 198 was a great motor. A bit hard to find some parts for. I don't know about top speed even with 5:38 gears and an OD.
Ran out of speedo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2021 at 8:14pm
Here's a few pics of the CJ5 we just picked up. Not sure what tranny I have. I believe it's a D20 t case because the rear output is in the center. The rear diff is offset, though, so they must of lengthened the drive shaft.

 





Edited by drm101 - 06 Mar. 2021 at 8:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2021 at 8:58pm
I see:
A 9774035 bellhousing.

Standard Jeep Dauntless cast iron adapter @ 2-5/8” thick.

A Borg Warner T14 .... these are pretty good fully synchronized 3 speeds but they have an oddball 10 spline mainshaft (output).
So the transmission mainshaft gear which drives the transfer case will be a special 10 spline gear.
It must be a 26 tooth gear if you have a non modified D20.
And NO this 26 tooth gear CANNOT be used to drive an early 2.43 Dana 18 case. The teeth will not mesh. D18 2.43 ratio 20* tooth pressure angle vs D20 2.03 ratio 17.5 * pressure angle.

Looks like a normal Dauntless 225 with Delco Remy distributor.

Can’t see enough of the transfer case to say what it is.
But the transfer case shift linkage is not correct for a normal jeep big hole T18. 
It Looks more like a D20 shifter.
Centered rear output implies it must be a Dana 20 because it certainly is not a Dana 300.
Unmodified it will only have very meager 2.03 gear reduction.


Edited by oldtime - 06 Mar. 2021 at 9:25pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2021 at 11:30pm
Thanks much!! Is it possible to find 10 spline gear that will match up to the D18? D18's I can find. I also have a T90 out of a truck that I believe has the longer input, so that's an option. Another option is to find a centered Dana 44. Lot's of options and things to think about and learn. Would the 29T 10 spline gear listed on Novak's chart work if I wanted to use the T14 with my D18 t-case?




Edited by drm101 - 07 Mar. 2021 at 12:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 12:23am
Yes you got it.
The 18-8-50 (29 tooth gear) is the very same gear that Jeep used to mate the T14 to the 2.46 ratio Dana 18’s.
This gear was used beginning in 1967 through 1971 with all T14/Dauntless drivetrain.
The T14 cannot be mated to any 2.43 ratio transfer case.
IMHO the T14 is superior to the T90-J.
It’s a bit stronger, fully synchronized and has greater gear span.
3.10, 1.612, 1 Verses 2.798, 1.55, 1


Edited by oldtime - 07 Mar. 2021 at 12:43am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 12:19pm
One more question. the switch on the pass side shift tower is the reverse switch. What is the driver side switch? Neutral safety, maybe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 2:01pm
Yes neutral safety switch so you don’t accidentally start Jeep in gear.
This also implies you cannot move Jeep with the starter motor.
If used, the neutral safety wire ties into the starter circuit.



Edited by oldtime - 07 Mar. 2021 at 2:16pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 3:07pm
Thanks for all of the info in the original post. Your recommendations for mounting a T98/18/19 to the dauntless is exactly what I did. I enlarged two of the transmission mounting holes to match the GM bell, then backed up the bolts on the tranny holes with 1/4" plate straps to assist where the tranny material got narrow along the mounting ears. Then I used the Novak large hole reducer and machined bearing retainer, along with their Jeep to Buick/GM pilot bushing...
45 #10012
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 3:44pm
Dual post is brake light switch.
Single post is transmission controlled spark switch.
No safety neutral switch.
Maybe the tower is off a later T14 ?
1947 CJ2A 225V6 SM420 D30 PLok/D44 D/Locker Warn OD 5:38s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2021 at 3:57pm
What flatfender47 said....
Jim likely knows these T14’s much better than I do.
I only ever owned a single T14 and that was a long while ago. 
I prefer the T15 above all other BW 3 speeds.
That’s what I was thinking too it’s maybe a 1972-1975 cj T14 shift tower. But the main drive gear would have to be the earlier shorter version.


Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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